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momac

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Serena Williams lost the US Grand Slam final to Naomi Osaka. Unfortunately Naomi's victory was marred by Serena having a big argument with the umpire who had handed out three violations to Serena, one to her coach who was gesturing from the audience, once for smashing her racket and one for calling the umpire a liar. Not a pretty ending to the game. Naomi was in tears, having won by a stronger game and then having heard the the partisan crowd booing the umpire. Sad.  Apparently coaches are not permitted to 'coach' during a Grand Slam match although they can in the lesser tournaments.  He was sending gestures to Serena which caught the eye of the umpire and that was the first violation.

 

Have rarely watched a full match with Serena Williams in it as I find her a bit of a pain, quite different from her maybe less talented sister Venus.  Mostly I watch men's singles in any of the tournaments, but I did see her meltdown shouting at the umpire and calling him a liar.  The young woman who won the match by playing a stronger game was in tears at the end, her victory spoiled by the really partisan crowd rooting for Serena, and booing the umpire, it was a nasty end to what should have been a well deserved victory for the young player.

 

And Serena is the only female tennis player I have seen playing in a tutu.  Not politically correct to mention clothing maybe but it was quite remarkable.:)

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Didn't watch it, but it's all over the news this morning, and yes, it  does appear that Serena 'lost' the final, and so there will always be a shadow over what otherwise should have been an incontrovertible win for Osaka.

The crowd were abominable.

 

One could almost speculate that, seeing the match slipping away from her, Serena setup an "I was Robbed" scenario.

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I am sick and tired of hearing about Serena Williams.  You'd think the way she goes on that she's the only woman in history that had a baby and almost died doing it.  You'd also think the way she goes on that she's the only woman in history that went back to work after it.  And no, I don't care about her opinion on anything else, which she is freely giving.  Both her and her husband are Jehovah's Witnesses but she managed to get pregnant before she was married so what's that about?  I haven't been following the tennis, except the few bits that get into the news, though.

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5 hours ago, lunababymoonchild said:

.  Both her and her husband are Jehovah's Witnesses

So she went through all that medical intervention without a blood transfusion?

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21 minutes ago, megustaleer said:

So she went through all that medical intervention without a blood transfusion?

 

My thoughts exactly.  This information has not been forthcoming.

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Serena Williams has been tested for drugs more than any other player in tennis history - and passed every single time.

 

She won a Grand Slam pregnant.

 

She came back and played shortly after a horrendous birth experience - I could barely walk after a similiar time.

 

She is a role model across the world not only for young women in sport, but for young black women.

 

She is the most successful female tennis player of all time.

 

And in return she has been portrayed as a gorilla, a monkey, a man, a brat, a hypocrite, a hysterical woman...

 

When John McEnroe had his many tantrums, he was seen as a 'character'. Have any of the male players been treated so badly?

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8 hours ago, Hazel said:

Serena Williams has been tested for drugs more than any other player in tennis history - and passed every single time.

 

She won a Grand Slam pregnant.

 

She came back and played shortly after a horrendous birth experience - I could barely walk after a similiar time.

 

She is a role model across the world not only for young women in sport, but for young black women.

 

She is the most successful female tennis player of all time.

 

And in return she has been portrayed as a gorilla, a monkey, a man, a brat, a hypocrite, a hysterical woman...

 

When John McEnroe had his many tantrums, he was seen as a 'character'. Have any of the male players been treated so badly?

 

that cartoon was appalling, and adding to the racism in it, look at the cartoonists drawing in it of the opponent and umpire.

 

if as the cartoonist insists that he's drawing it accurately, why isn't the opponent in the cartoon Naomi Osaka and why isn't the umpire Carlos Ramos.

 

Just lazy stereotyping in the cartoon

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I hear what you are saying Hazel, but she is a permanent bad actor on the Court, she's a great player, no one can disgree with that, but her personality is such that she is not all that well liked except by her fan base.  Her sister, Venus, who plays well but not as well as Serena, is a much quieter and better behaved person, nothing much negative gets said about her.

 

Granted there have been a lot of been really badly behaved male tennis players but at the present time with maybe the exception of the dramatics from Djokovic there is no one in the McEnroe, Connors category who is causing much uproar in the male tennis field at the moment.

 

It was a great improvement when they introduced the Hawkeye camera to review line calls and that was apparently brought about by Serena shouting at a lineswoman that she would 'shove the ball up her ...) I can't think that could be classed as role model behaviour.

 

She is definitely determined to beat all previous records and I do think she is the most successful female player at this time, don't know how she would compare with some of the previous stars.  She is the idol of the young woman who beat her at the US Open, but her behaviour ruined the win for the young player, helped along by a booing crowd.

 

Having said all of this I prefer not to watch her play along with Sharapova who screeches when she hits the tennis ball.  Quite often with the female players it is quite a fashion show and Serena added to it with her ballet outfit in the US Open. :)

 

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3 minutes ago, iff said:

 

that cartoon was appalling, and adding to the racism in it, look at the cartoonists drawing in it of the opponent and umpire.

 

if as the cartoonist insists that he's drawing it accurately, why isn't the opponent in the cartoon Naomi Osaka and why isn't the umpire Carlos Ramos.

 

Just lazy stereotyping in the cartoon

Yes the cartoon was terrible and sad to say racism does rear its ugly head.  

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I watched John McEnroe at Wimbledon - in these days you could barely get tennis in colour let alone 'foreign' tournaments - and I don't recall him ever smashing a racquet to smithereens on court.  And he suffered a great deal for his tantrums.  One year the Wimbledon referee called McEnroe into his office and told him that if he disrupted the tournament that year he would be instantly disqualified and banned for life.  It's amazing how quickly he learned to keep his mouth shut.  And now that he's on the senior circuit the audience expect him to have a tantrum as some of them get tickets and travel just to see that.

 

Serena's coach admitted that he was coaching her from the side of the court but the fact that 'everybody else does it and gets away with it' doesn't make it OK.  Serena is not a new competitor, she knows the rules and she knows the prejudices and she has won that tournament before so she knows what she needs to do.  Giving birth isn't an excuse to have a tantrum, imho.

Edited by lunababymoonchild

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When McEnroe had his tantrums people took this piss out of him, mocked him mercilessly (to the extent that his tantrums made him famous globally far more than his tennis ever did).

 

When Serena had hers... we're suddenly seeing articles about sexism, racism, the outrageous hate of cartoons, the innate bigotry of Australia. We're even being told that 'McEnroe never had to put up with this kind of thing.'

 

Sigh.

 

 

Edited by hux

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Yes, tennis seems to have changed much over the last few years.  I didn't watch much of McEnroe and Connors - I was too busy enjoying playing tennis myself, but I did see some of the hijinks on telly when the bad boys got going.  They wouldn't get away with it now, it would cost them too much money.  Serena has found that out, she got nailed for $17,000.00 which is probably a drop in the bucket to her, but it must be at least embarrassing if Serena knows how to be embarrassed.  I've seen on Facebook where her followers say she is Black Excellence so they themselves are putting the emphasis on race.

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On 14/09/2018 at 00:14, hux said:

When McEnroe had his tantrums people took this piss out of him, mocked him mercilessly (to the extent that his tantrums made him famous globally far more than his tennis ever did).

 

When Serena had hers... we're suddenly seeing articles about sexism, racism, the outrageous hate of cartoons, the innate bigotry of Australia. We're even being told that 'McEnroe never had to put up with this kind of thing.'

 

Sigh.

 

 

 

Mr McEnroe disagrees with your statement

 

’ve said far worse,” McEnroe, a seven-times Grand Slam singles winner, said on ESPN. “She’s right about the guys being held to a different standard, there’s no question.”

 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/john-mcenroe-serena-is-right-it-wouldnt-happen-to-a-man--but-opinion-is-divided-868087.html

 

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11 hours ago, iff said:

 

My statement that he was mocked mercilessly and made globally famous because of his tantrums?

 

Nope. I don't think he does disagree with that statement.

 

Also, the article you linked to includes the words 'but opinion is divided.' I only point this out because you clearly missed it.

 

 

Edited by hux

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McEnroe took three warnings about his behaviour before he was penalised. He was mocked for his behaviour - not his race, gender, parental status.

 

It boils my piss that Venus be held up because she is "quieter" or "better behaved".

 

Here's to all the loud, outspoken women.

 

I think Madeline Albright said it best when she said "There's a special place in hell for women who don't support other women."

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I get condemned everywhere I go for being loud and outspoken and nobody supports me.  I'm still loud and outspoken.  

 

Serena Williams broke the rules.  Rules that she is familiar with and adheres to everywhere else. I saw part of her outburst, she told the umpire that she had a daughter, what does that have to do with the price of chips?  Is Serena now exempt from the rules? 

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What's wrong with being civilized and courteous Hazel?  There are lots of female tennis players, different nationalities, different levels of talent, I was remarking on two women from the same family, same original trainer, one gets on with playing her best without being an exhibitionist and the other doesn't.  I haven't seen any of the other WTA players who behave like Serena.  Being a good player doesn't entitle her to behave badly.

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I thought she had a point but maybe didn't convey it right. Thought the judge handled it terribly and should have just had a word off mic.

This kind of puts it in context. I got 2/11

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/12/tennis-tantrums-quiz-meltdowns-serena-williams

 

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Clavain, seems to me that all the examples were of male tennis players behaving badly, maybe I missed it but I didn't see any female players in that list, however, I don't say that women should be meek and not stand up for themselves but if you are playing a game then you are obliged to play by the rules.  And if you don't then you get penalized.:hmm:

Edited by momac

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The issue isn't if Serena has a right to behave badly or inappropriately. Of course she does. 

 

This issue is, are we allowed to make fun of her without being labelled racists, sexists, (and now apparently) parentists? I suspect various cartoonists are already backing away.

 

Oh, and the coach was totally cheating (Guardian). Though apparently he was coaching a woman in the crowd or something. 

Edited by hux

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Does anyone have the right to make fun of anyone, and I disagree with the right to behave badly as it is the behaving badly which calls attention to her in the first place, so in a way she is the author of her own misfortune or commentary, unless any attention is better than none.  I don't like to see racism etc. but it exists.  

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There is nothing wrong with being courteous and civilised. Everyone is entitled to an off day. Everyone is entitled then to have the mickey taken out of them for said tantrum. But Serena has been and is treated differently because she is female and black. And not favourably so.

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Hazel, you may be right about Serena being treated unfavourably, not sure it has so much to do about her being a black female,more about her behaviour.  I don't like her, find her attitude irritating, much like another American player, Coco Vandeweghe, who is a bit of a complainer, and Maria Sharapova who screeches each time she hits the ball.  There are lots of other female players who just get on with the game without resorting to showing off or poor sportsmanship.  But there is lots of tennis to watch and it's easy to avoid the bad actors.

 

 

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