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David
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Getting some conventions going for tagging is definitely the way to go and eventually I'll create a thread in the welcome area which runs through it.  It's best not to have too many otherwise people will be turned off by the complexity, but those are useful suggestions, Mr HG.

 

I'd agree country is better than nationality.  As a copywriter, I should note the use of full stops after initials is increasingly on the way out - note BBC News and The Guardian.  But on sites like Amazon it's still there, and indeed on the books themselves, so we may want to stick with that.

 

The Booker is an interesting example of diversity.  But I'm not sure we'd want to tie ourselves to just one label to cover many different facets.  I don't see the harm in having a few similar labels for the same thread, such as 'Booker Prize' and 'Booker Longlist'.  Probably using specific years would be too narrow - it would be very easy to find a specific year within a general Booker tag.

 

The most important immediate decision, though, is about titles.  No one's said they don't like the prefix approach since it's come into place and I do think it looks quite good, though we'll improve on that, if we can.  However, we also have the author mentioned in a lot of the post-migration titles, in addition to the prefix.  Are we okay with getting rid of those?

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  However, we also have the author mentioned in a lot of the post-migration titles, in addition to the prefix.  Are we okay with getting rid of those?

We decided against having author names fore and aft in Classic BGO, and I think it looks tidier if the layout is much the same all the way through, so I'm happy to have those author names removed.

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I just posted a review and then realized (after the fact, I know) that maybe I was doing the tagging wrong.  Should I have put the author's name as a tag first?  It looks like several people have done that.  Then the title and then the other tags?  Or the title and then the author and subject tags together (which is what I did).

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I just posted a review and then realized (after the fact, I know) that maybe I was doing the tagging wrong.  Should I have put the author's name as a tag first?  It looks like several people have done that.  Then the title and then the other tags?  Or the title and then the author and subject tags together (which is what I did).

 

Well, we're looking for thoughts about whether to include the author in the title as well as the prefix tag, but at the moment I think not.  Title is just the title of the book, then make sure the first tag is the author's name.  You did all that, but then you need to click 'Use first tag as prefix' beside the tags.  I've now done this.

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Without indulging in undue hagiographic adulation I should like to thank whoever has tagged all the 19C, 20C and 21C Fiction and so many others. The tagging so far looks really good and makes for such easy searching. I appreciate having countries and genres included and any other useful secondary tags to aid searches.

Edited by grasshopper
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Without indulging in undue hagiographic adulation I should like to thank whoever has tagged all the 19C, 20C and 21C Fiction and so many others. The tagging so far looks really good and makes for such easy searching. I appreciate having countries and genres included and any other useful secondary tags to aid searches.

 

The appearance of all the new tags stating authors is not down to manual input on each thread (this would have taken many weeks - it's thousands of threads).  Instead our developer, Stuart (you'll see he's an admin in order to access the system controls) wrote code which turned all the information from our old author indexes into tags, attached to the relevant threads from the information stored in the indexes.  Non-author tags are indeed incredibly useful and they are down to the people starting new threads since the transfer.  Everyone should think carefully about how they can add helpful tags like this when they start a new thread and once we agree some basic conventions I'll start a reference thread in the Welcome section to go through this.

 

There is still a lot of manual work to be done by the mod squad.  There are a number of threads with tags such as 'unknown' or '..'.  This is because in the old system you had to enter something in the author field of a thread, even if it wasn't relevant, so many people entered punctuation marks and the like (which was fine - I did too).  This has led to anomalies here where the tagging code couldn't find something suitable from the data.

 

I hope also to set up permissions which will allow established members to add tags to threads, even if they didn't start them, but I think I will need a plugin for that.  Then the community as a whole can progressively build our tagging resources.  A lot of other book sites use tagging quite poorly and I'd like us to take the author index advantage we now have in relation to tagging and make it even better with helpful tags throughout relating to genre, country, topic, etc.

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The appearance of all the new tags stating authors is not down to manual input on each thread (this would have taken many weeks - it's thousands of threads).  Instead our developer, Stuart (you'll see he's an admin in order to access the system controls) wrote code .................

 

:D  :D  Visions of  mods on tall stools, at tall desks like Bob Cratchit, all tagging manually for days on end!  I guessed there would be a system, but did assume the mods had applied it!

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This has been a long and relatively fruitless afternoon spent trying to get to grips with the business of uploading apps for the board.  It has not gone well.  *sigh*  Unfortunately apps are more complicated and need to be uploaded with a file transfer program, involving navigating the site's files manually.  I really thought I'd got it right but the app concerned stubbornly refused to work.

 

Anyway, so-called 'hooks' are a lot easier and the system deals with those in a much more user-friendly way.  So today's small success story is a hook which enables anyone to add (or indeed delete) tags, even if they didn't start the thread in question.  This will enable the whole community to help out with getting our threads fully tagged up!

 

I'd hoped to get a system which allowed us to restrict who can do this - I'd rather not let new members have that power until we know they can be trusted!  Nevertheless, if it's a choice between universal access or no ability for members to edit tags, then the former wins out for me.  It will remain unlikely that most people would abuse this.  However, I would ask everyone to be vigilant about the appearance of rogue tags!

 

So, no matter how old the thread you can now add tags for anything relevant to help people find discussions they will be interested in.  Genre, country, subject matter - that kind of thing.

 

Please help BGO by keeping this in mind whenever you see a thread which has no tags other than the author, or which lacks a tag you think would be useful.  Obviously, though, usefulness must be the key - over-tagging won't help clarity.

 

You will see an 'Edit Tags' box beside the forum follow button at the top right of every thread.  I look forward to seeing our tagging resources grow!

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Have been reading about 'tagging' and want you to know that there will be absolutely no danger from me because you might as well been speaking Greek in this tagging business, so rest easy, no threat from this forumer!  :)

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STOP!!!!

 

I have kust added a tag onto the 2666 thread (Mexico) and it has knocked out the author name as the primary tag. Hence, if we edit the tags as things stand, we will lose our author labels.

 

Damn.  That's a real pain.  Anyway, thanks for spotting it, Mr HG.  I've disabled the hook, so even the small thing that went right with today's work actually didn't.  I've re-ticked the prefix tag for 2666 - this appears to be the problem with what the hook does.

 

Harumph.

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Have been reading about 'tagging' and want you to know that there will be absolutely no danger from me because you might as well been speaking Greek in this tagging business, so rest easy, no threat from this forumer!   :)

 

Have a careful look back, momac, and let me know what it is you don't understand.  Tagging is absolutely fundamental to starting threads and using the board now, so I really want to make sure everyone is happy with it.

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Have had a look back and it looks like it is a way of identifying further posts on a topic of the same genre or author.  Is that basically what it is and if I start a topic by an author I would 'tag' it as being a certain type of fiction, or genre or whatever or look to see if that author had been tagged before?  Or have I not understood the tagging business.  I have looked at the posts by the people who are really 'up' on this whole tagging business and I must say that the posts are quite foreign to me.  I don't know how to do half the stuff the younger folks do on computers so it's a case of learning (or not) as I go.  :(

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When you start a new thread, you enter the title of the book in the Topic Title space. Then, you enter the author's name in the Topic Tag bar and click the box that says "use first tag as prefix". If you want, you can add other tags too (e.g. location, type of fiction, etc) by putting a comma after each one. But you must put the author first and click that box - otherwise you are creating work for the moderators.

 

For searching, you would have to click on the cogwheel next to the search bar in the to right hand corner of the homepage, enter the tag you want to search for in the Find Tags box, and then click the Search Now button. Hopefully in time there will be a "search for tag" box on the main page.

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Thanks Mr. HG - I have printed your post and will keep it next to my desktop.  Seems really straightforward.  I had seen a post which was talking about 'clouds' - hadn't come across that one before but I can Google anything new and get the information.

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  I don't know how to do half the stuff the younger folks do on computers so it's a case of learning (or not) as I go.   :(

I'm right there with you, momac.

 

I'd never even noticed that cogwheel Mr HG refers to, so hadn't ever seen that page for refining search terms . Goodness know how come I'm still a moderator, apart being included in the fixtures and fittings.

 

As for 'clouds' - they're way above my head  :rolleyes:

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Hopefully in time there will be a "search for tag" box on the main page.

 

Is that like Where's Wally? - only for moderators?

 

(There's just endless potential in that gag...)

 

Given the context-specific functionality of IP Board search I'm not sure that's possible.  I've looked for a plugin, but there doesn't seem to be one.  However, it shouldn't be too long before the next major overhaul of the software, and since tagging is still relatively new to IP Board maybe they will have addressed this.

 

I'm sorry people have been a bit confused by this.  Mr HG has given an excellent explanation, but I'll put together a post for the welcome section and if there's more input on the formatting we've been discussing then I'll just change or add to it.

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Have been reading about 'tagging' and want you to know that there will be absolutely no danger from me because you might as well been speaking Greek in this tagging business, so rest easy, no threat from this forumer!   :)

I must admit to feeling that way too, Momac, but I am determined not to fall too far behind with all this new stuff.  Because written instruction is not my way of learning, I use trial and (t)error get to know the basics of website, mobile phone, whatever and then start exploring a bit; the last stage in the process is to call in an 11-year-old! :help:

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I'm with momac, meg and Ting here.  A lot of the above narrative has also gone way over my head - clouds and all.  I have heard some of the termanology before but don't quite connect with what it does, why or how.  On the other hand, like Ting I am a 'trial and (t)error' technique person too (wonderful phrase by the way Ting).  I'm sure that once I get to use the system for reviewing and using our wonderful 'library' I'll come to terms with it eventually.  (My new mobile is about 25% known to me now and I've only had it three weeks).

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