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hux

Leaving Neverland

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Fascinating and disturbing watch.

 

Not sure how anyone can keep deluding themselves that he wasn't a paedophile. So patently was. 

 

Simpsons have already announced that they're pulling the Michael Jackson episode from TV And streaming services. 

 

 

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I haven't seen it yet but I was convinced that he was a paedophile by the last (think it was Martin Bashir) controversial documentary when Jackson was alive

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I thought the same hux. My only doubts are he is not alive to defend himself and should the art they create be tainted by what we think of the artist?

Kipling was possibly a racist but great poems. Bowie no saint.

Many artists in history have done what we now call wrong but they made great art.

Not a fan of Michael Jackson but admire is work and must admit twitch to Billie Jean. Music or the man?

Same seems to be happening with Kevin Stacey - made some great films/series but now deleted because of his actions.

Moral question. Art or the artist.?

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I have no problem separating the artist from the art.

In the case of Jackson, I'm not sure it's entirely relevant. Other than hardcore fans, who is listening to his stuff? Most of it is pretty dated now.

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I got 23 minutes into the first part and spent so much time shouting at the tv and thinking 'my parents would not have allowed that', so I've taken a break and probably won't go back.  It's not my place to judge anybody and it's very easy to be clear in hindsight but even with only 23 minutes of a documentary it was clear to me that Michael's interest was unhealthy.

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1 hour ago, lunababymoonchild said:

I got 23 minutes into the first part and spent so much time shouting at the tv and thinking 'my parents would not have allowed that', so I've taken a break and probably won't go back.  It's not my place to judge anybody and it's very easy to be clear in hindsight but even with only 23 minutes of a documentary it was clear to me that Michael's interest was unhealthy.

 

In part II, the son does indeed blame his mother, and the mother accepts she was to blame. 

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10 hours ago, hux said:

I have no problem separating the artist from the art.

In the case of Jackson, I'm not sure it's entirely relevant. Other than hardcore fans, who is listening to his stuff? Most of it is pretty dated now.

It does matter because even after his death he his a multi million industry. and business will defend that https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/07/michael-jackson-estate-adverts-lawsuits-interviews-leaving-neverland-airs

Just about to watch part 2.

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13 hours ago, hux said:

 

In part II, the son does indeed blame his mother, and the mother accepts she was to blame. 

 

To be fair any child should be safe from harm regardless of whether the parent is available or not.  Unfortunately, that's not the case and we do, to a certain extent, expect the parent/s to keep their own child safe.  I just wonder what she was thinking - and yes I should watch the rest of the documentary to find out.  The 23 minutes I saw struck me that anybody would have known that it wasn't acceptable for a grown man even if it was Michael Jackson to behave like a wee boy (the mother's words) and just want to play with a five year old and with five year old toys.  I find that odd.

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I watched it allows the way through. It was very disturbing and left me in no doubt that the two men were being truthful.

As for the parents, I think what came across most strongly was how he also seduced the mothers in a way. He worked on each one, making himself into her favourite child. And he instinctively exploited his fame. He knew that the families were enormously flattered by his attentions and he needed that: he didn't have normal relationships with people who were his equals, and he could only cope with relationships where he had total control. And it made me think about the power of fame in that era. Hopefully we're a bit less naive now.

There must be people out there who said no, mothers who wouldn't let their kids sleep with him. It would be interesting to hear how that panned out. 

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I haven't watched the documentary but I think we all knew deep down long before the more recent claims. I remember when the whole Jordy Chandler story was in the news many years ago and that Jackson had paid his family millions to stop a court case that we all kind of raised our eyebrows. Everyone who I have spoken to that has watched the documntary agrees that the men are telling the truth which speaks volumes.

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