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  #1  
Old 10th October 2005, 06:11 PM
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Default Lionel Shriver - We Need To Talk About Kevin

Synopsis from Amazon:
Two years ago, Eva Khatchadourian's son, Kevin, murdered seven of his fellow high-school students, a cafeteria worker, and a popular algebra teacher. Because he was only fifteen at the time of the killings, he received a lenient sentence and is now in a prison for young offenders in upstate New York. Telling the story of Kevin's upbringing, Eva addresses herself to her estranged husband through a series of letters. Fearing that her own shortcomings may have shaped what her son has become, she confesses to a deep, long-standing ambivalence about both motherhood in general and Kevin in particular. How much is her fault? Lionel Shriver tells a compelling, absorbing, and resonant story while framing these horrifying tableaux of teenage carnage as metaphors for the larger tragedy - the tragedy of a country where everything works, nobody starves, and anything can be bought but a sense of purpose.
^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
A thickish book, 400 pages, and smaller print than is currently used for many popular paperbacks, which made it a little awkward for reading in bed. This probably contributed to the slow start I made on this book...That and the self-obsessed soul-searching that Eva indulges in when tryingto decide whether or not to start a family.

Once Kevin arrived, however, and we start to see the differences emerging between Eva and husband Franklin as they try to relate to their son, the story began to hold my attention more and more.
Eventually, I was reading late into the night, which I have not done for quite some time, and read the last couple of chapters in a moving car (which is risky, as it makes me travel sick!).

Although we know before we start what Kevin has done to be imprisoned, it is the gradual erosion of trust between the parents, and the disintigration of the family that is compelling. Those last few chapters really took me by surprise, and I felt quite moved by the ending.
Thoroughly recommended.

Last edited by David : 7th January 2008 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Add author's name
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  #2  
Old 10th October 2005, 06:38 PM
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The well deserved winner of 2005 Orange Prize for Fiction is definitely a must read novel.

It is utterly compelling and I could not put it down. Extremely well written, the story unfolds in a series of letters written by Kevin's mother.

I put this forward as a title for my reading group and am looking forward to discussing it with them in the New Year.

Thoroughly recommended - add this one to your Santa wish list.
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Old 15th October 2005, 02:46 PM
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I rarely recommend books to friends, but I've been pushing this one on to anyone who will listen.

This was one of the most thought provoking novels that I have read for a long time. It leaves a lot of questions unanswered, most notably the nature/nurture debate that many parents must have to tackle. The mother isn't a particularly likeable character and as the narrator of the story, doesn't attempt to apologise for the way she is which is a strength of the story. No-one could be accused of sentimentality here!

The ending was truly didn't-see-it-coming shocking. A unique piece of writing.
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Old 3rd November 2005, 08:30 PM
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I found this a really interesting novel, really thought provoking. I didn't like the way there was only the mother's view of events, which may or may not have been a 'reliable' account, but it makes for interesting discussion, I may suggest it for the next meeting of my book group! The ending was quite a shocker, although I had sort of guessed about half way through, won't say too much more just yet because of spoilers and I can't remember how to make a spoiler tag! I found the ending inconclusive and disturbing, but I guess it was all the more effective for this. I really hope loads of other people read this because I'd really like to discuss it properly! Recommended, if only for the many questions it poses.
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Old 3rd November 2005, 09:25 PM
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You can read how to use Spoilers here. So spoil away to your heart's content, Seraphina.
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Old 4th November 2005, 01:43 PM
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Hi Seraphina

Glad to have another devotee of what must be one of my top three reads of the year (so far!). It does give food for thought doesn't it?

Spoiler:

I think your frustration with the one sided narrative is part of the author's intention. I read and hear her interviewed a couple of times earlier in the year and she is certainly a strong character with definite ideas about things, so I think that she meant for the book to challenge, disturb and undermine conventional thinking. In fact, I seem to remember her on Richard and Judy (!) with two other authors who had written loosely along the lines of not wanting children. One of the other books seemed to be a bubblegum 'I'm not going to have kids because I'm a crazeee chick having too much fun'. The contrast couldn't have been stronger!

I didn't guess the ending (I never do) and was totally shocked, although I immediately felt that of course that's what Kevin would do. I'd assumed that the father had taken the daughter away somewhere.

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Old 4th November 2005, 08:14 PM
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well, that wasn't really 'the ending' was it?
Spoiler:
It finishes with the 'second bedroom,the plain bedspread and the copy of Robon Hood'. Is there really hope for restoration, or is that hope against hope?
How did you feel about continuing with the book after we discover exactly what he did?...and I really did NOT see that coming, I too thought Franklin had taken Celia away.
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Old 5th November 2005, 11:34 AM
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Spoiler:
Now I'm trying to remember how close to the end of the book we found out that Kevin had killed his father and sister. It was a while back that I read it. I can rememebr feeling shocked for a good while. I also got the sense that the author tried to change our feelings toward Kevin by giving him an air of vulnerability as he approached his 18th birthday. The style of the book worked the emotions very well, a bit like a Hollywood weepie where even as you are crying your eyes out, you know you are being manipulated by the writer/producer/actors.
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:29 PM
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Spoiler:
There is one more letter (10 pages), after we are told of the mayhem at home, in which Eva stops trying to figure out the degree to which she is responsible for Kevin, and decides that she does love her son.

My bookgroup is supposed to discuss this book on Monday, but if anyone has still to finish it I don't see that we can.
Spoiler:
Talking about it without mentioning what has happened to Franklin and Celia woulkd be like ignoring the proverbial elephant in the corner - as this thread is proving!
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Old 5th November 2005, 12:45 PM
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Spoiler:
I think I had guessed that the father and sister were dead as I couldn't see any reason for Franklin to totally cut Eva from his life, and the fact that he never seemed to reply to the letters. Plus she mentions early on in the novel that she has 'lost' Celia, and it seemed odd to me that she would talk in this way if her daughter was still alive. Saying that I didn't really like that it happened, I was hoping I was wrong!


I thought it was quite effective the way we were made to feel a bit sympathetic towards Kevin at the end...for me anyway it heightened the futility of the whole thing. I think it would have been easier to deal with if he hadn't shown any remorse, but the fact that even HE didn't see any reason for what he'd done in the end made me really angry!

So what about the whole nature/nurture thing? Is Eva partly to blame for Thursday or not? I personally believe not. I'm a firm believer in nature, although I think nurture can bring certain things to the fore, but they have to be there already. So I suppose I'm saying it's a mixture really. Kevin must have had the ability to do this in his nature from the start, but perhaps Eva's behaviour enhanced it.
Spoiler:
But if Eva was such a terrible mother, how come she's the one still alive and why does he have a photo of her in his cell?


Also do you think Eva's account is reliable? Or is she lying and making things up? Is she writing with a particular agenda? And what is her reason for writing these letters anyway? Is she trying to assign blame? It almost seems as if she's trying to pin the blame on Franklin sometimes...
Spoiler:
an easy target as he's dead!
There's no one to contradict her story so she can say what she likes.
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Old 5th November 2005, 01:08 PM
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Spoiler:
I thought that the reason that Kevin didn't kill Eva was to make her suffer even more. OK, being dead is hardly a happy ending, but the pain of coping with a son who has murdered your husband and daughter must be almost unbearable. The ultimate punishment for the 'crime' of giving birth to Kevin.

Eva is an unreliable narrator, I don't think any narrator is entirely impartial and this is an emotional tale. In the first part of the book, she give the impression that it was largely pressure from Franklin that resulted in her pregnancy and she does seem to hold him responsible for lack of support when Kevin is difficult as a child. This seems unfair and there are always two sides to any such story.
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  #12  
Old 5th November 2005, 02:30 PM
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I had some trouble with this book for the first few chapters. All the anguishing over whether or not they wanted a baby,and why, plus Eva's dreadful labour/delivery, followed by the bonding and feeding problems.
I just thought it would be dreadful to read this if you are pregnant, or have a cranky baby.

There are two people in any relationship, and I felt that Kevin and Eva were similar in character and just irritated each other from the start, building up a spiral of aggravation which Kevin couldn't express in an acceptable way, and eventually he exploded. Although 'explosion' seems rather inaccurate way to refer to something so carefully planned and executed.

I think that Kevin actually respected Eva for her ability to see through him, and because she did not try to live the illusion of a 'happy family'. I think that he actually does love her.

Fanklin has a picture of how the 'All-American Family' should be, and imposes it on Kevin and Eva (even dictating the proper way for an expectant Mom to behave). I think the illusion is despised by Kevin, even when he goes along with it, and think there is a sense in which Eva and Kevin team up as 'the ones who know it's a lie' when Franklin is doing all his 'father and son' activities.

Of course, you are right, Seraphina, to have doubts about the reliability of Eva's account. We do hear this story from one point of view only.
I assumed from the start that these letters were not being posted, and were being written purely as a way for Eva to deal with her own feelings of guilt and failure, and possibly to justify her actions. or inaction, as Kevin's mother.
Spoiler:
It was very perspicacious of you to have seen in advance that Kevin had also included his father and sister in his plans. I think it took a lot of people by surprise. I genuinely thought that Franklin had taken Celia away,and that Eva didn't know where (I was waiting for some dramatic revelation to explain why). I was slightly confused by the resurgance of passion between them after Franklin announced his plans for splitting up, but I didn't doubt that they had separated.
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Old 9th November 2005, 10:31 AM
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Well, we were supposed to talk about Kevin at my RL bookgroup last night.

We meet quarterly and talk about three books. Rarely has the whole group read all the books, but we usually talk about them all, anyway, and decide whether or not to read the one/s we've missed based on the discussion.

Last night only 3 of us had finished WNTTAK, two were halfway through, and 3 had yet to start. Although we who had read it were eager to talk about it we felt we shouldn't, as we couldn't ignore the events of the penultimate chapter and didn't want to spoil it for the ones still reading it.

We did manage to intrigue the others, 'though, and enthuse the ones who had been discouraged by those difficult first chapters. So, it has been held over until the next meeting...in February!

Seraphina,
Spoiler:
you are still the only person I know of who had any clue about what had happened to Franklin and Celia
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Old 11th November 2005, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megustaleer
Well, we were supposed to talk about Kevin at my RL bookgroup last night...
...it has been held over until the next meeting...in February!


How frustrating!
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Old 17th February 2007, 11:52 AM
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Recovered thread
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mungus
22nd December 2005 10:02 PM


Hi Leese and thank you for 'dragging up' this thread again, I'm always interested to read other people's views on this powerful novel.

Like you, I have no children (by active choice) and was drawn to the book partly for this reason. Your reaction to Franklin was interesting. I realised that I hadn't really give him a lot of thought but you're right, he is a bit of a drip. Kevin obviously realised this and used it to his own advantage. I originally resold my book on ebay but have put it on my Christmas wish list as I want to re-read it. Here's hoping!

Last edited by megustaleer : 19th February 2007 at 11:29 AM.
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