Why are American crime writers better than their UK counterparts?

[Paolo]

Is it just me or do US writers carry a bit more heft than British writers? I know there’s dross produced in the States (Patterson springs to mind as a culprit) and I’m sure they produce authors as anodyne as our very own snore merchant, Robert Goddard, but there really are much more interesting crime novelists emanating from America at the moment. Maybe it’s the hugeness of the country or the fact they have more guns. Anyone have any ideas why this is so?

Anyway, my top three crime/thriller authors are:
1) George Pelecanos – writes rich, savage books about Washington DC. Start with the Big Blowdown or the Sweet Forever.
Great - if you like depth and brilliant dialogue.
Not so good - for those who like endless twists.

2) Carl Hiaasen – incredibly funny satirist who writes brilliant revenge comedies about the despoliation of Florida.
Great – if you like funny, smart writing.
Not so good – if you’re the chief executive of an oil company.

3) James Lee Burke – lyrical, evocative writer who can also tell a great story. Bases his books in New Orleans and Montana. Doesn’t like oil companies either.
Great – if you like your writing rich and chewy but need a great tale too.
Not so good – If polysyllables make your teeth hurt.

[Rhiannon]

US writers get the hype - it's cheaper for UK publishers and book groups to promote established US writers. But homegrown - you want dark, lyrical and multi-stranded, try Danuta Reah. Silent Playgrounds is a disturbing exploration of crime travelling through generations, and Bleak Water is probably one of the best page turners I have ever read. The writing is amazing. If you like things a bit softer, what about Stephen Booth - his series is excellent - the writing is strong and the characters are genuinely interesting. Stuart Pawson is another good, underrated UK writer. I think these three have got caught up in the odd Brit attitude that if it isn't set in London, it's parochial, but all of these books are bigger than that. They just don't get the hype. Try them - see what you think.
Rhi

[Grammath]

I'm with Paolo on this one. If you ask me, the US is the place to go for the best crime writing, and has been since the days of Hammett and Chandler.

I guess part of it is the danger/violence element (guns etc.), plus Americans are much better than we Brits at paranoia, an essential element of good crime fiction - just look at the world around you for proof.

Americans are also going to seem a little bit more exotic to British sensibilities too - US bookworm friends of mine praise UK crime writing more than their own.

I also like the noir writing style pioneered by the two guys above (although Chandler grew up in the UK and was educated at Dulwich College, so I guess we could just about claim him as one of ours :) ).

In the right hands, the writing can be just dazzling, as in the hands of the current Daddy of the genre, James Ellroy. Check out "L.A. Confidential" or "The Black Dahlia" to see what I mean. Alternatively, go back to Chandler. I read "Farewell, My Lovely" last year and it just blew me away.

I like James Lee Burke too, though his style is entirely different. Robicheaux novels are so atmospheric, you can almost taste the catfish. And Hiaasen the funniest out there as well, plus the environmentalist outrage the drives his novels appeals to this greeny too.

I'm not saying there aren't great crime writers in this country - Ian Rankin and Jake Arnott spring to mind as favourites, plus all crime writers must doff their caps to Conan Doyle.

[megustaleer]

[QUOTE=Paolo] there really are much more interesting crime novelists emanating from America at the moment.


That's a matter of opinion/taste, surely?

[Royal Rother]

Aha! Someone who likes Ellroy I see. I tried him, didn't like his style at all, and have passed the book around but with no takers, so it's not just me. I found after 60 pages that about 30 characters had been introduced and I didn't care about any of them, and was thoroughly confused as to who was what. Perhaps his books need to be read in big chunks as opposed to being able to dip in during the week with longer sessions at weekend which is the pattern I follow. I probably started on a Monday! Perhaps I should try again.

Anyway, all these names being recommended, and I've never heard of most of them. So much to look forward to, and so many shelves to be filled. Love it!

[Grammath]

I guess Ellroy's an acquired taste. You have to like hardboiled, noir crime writing and he's the most extreme in the genre I've ever come across - so dark, so obsessive and so intense.

Some of his recent stuff, such as "The Cold Six Thousand" does verge on self-parody - lots of two word, rat-a-tat machine gun sentences and extraordinarily labyrinthine plotting. His writing is pretty challenging, both in content and style, but the two titles I suggested are good entry points for the beginner.

Also, if you empathise with most of Ellroy's characters there may well be something very wrong with you. Even the initially virtuous, like Ed Exley in "L.A. Confidential", can be dragged down into the mire of corruption, violence and brutality. Ellroy's is a harsh world and I'll admit to sometimes feeling positively grubby after reading his work.

[Royal Rother]

Interesting comments Grammath. Thanks.

[waters]

I was wondering the same thing about Brit crime v U.S. It just has to do with the culteral diversity of the states, so many different ethnic groups to provide different reasons for getting mad at the world, as well as providing intriguing villains.
Perhaps as England accepts more awfully sinister immigrants we'll have the same material.(Think of drowning cockle fishers in Morcombe Bay)
Maybe old fashioned, but the writer I still revere(Even above dear Elmore Leonard) is John D MacDonald, who, with the most liberal credentials, explored America's culteral diversity to great effect.And yes, U.S. crime writing is on a different plane to the brits. Maybe one honourable exception, Michael Dibdin -but only when doing Italy.
One note of dissent, Jamie Lee Bourk writes by numbers.

[Grammath]

With you on Elmore Leonard, waters, the man is a master in the field.

Your point about cultural diversity is a good one too - where else would you get writers as diverse in style and background as, to pick four at random, Tony Hillerman's novels about the Navajo Tribal Police, Joe R. Lansdale's droll Texans Hap and Leonard, Walter Mosley's Easy Rawlins books set in black L.A. and Janet Evanovich's hysterical Stephanie Plum series, as well as everyone mentioned so far in this thread?

Not read John D. MacDonald, any advice for the beginner?? He sounds as if he might appeal to this Americophile woolly liberal.

[BrumB]

Quote:
Perhaps as England accepts more awfully sinister immigrants we'll have the same material.(Think of drowning cockle fishers in Morcombe Bay)

I have just read Night Angels by Danuta Reah (recommended on this thread, I think). It is well written, a great page turner, intellectually interesting - forensic linguistics - and about illegal immigrants and their and our dilemmas. It is an altogether worthwhile book but, for me, it still doesn't have the same oomph as an equally well written American crime novel. Perhaps it has something to do with the unfamiliar and maybe the influence of American movies helps. I wonder if North American readers find our crime novels more interesting than their own? Is it partly a matter of geography?

[Grammath]

Quote:
I wonder if North American readers find our crime novels more interesting than their own? Is it partly a matter of geography?

I think your point is very valid, BrumB. I can only go by the Americans I know, but they rate P.D. James, Ruth Rendell and Ellis Peters at least as highly as any of their own talent. Not saying I agree with them, mind. :D

[BrumB]

I posted a question on Bookxing asking which readers preferred - US or British Crime. It didn't raise much interest but the few replies were fairly even-handed with, what seemed to me to be, a slight preference for British crime by US readers.

[Adrian]

Growing up I read exclusively English crime, but now I prefer American.

Pelecanos is of course the king. I love all his, especially the Stefanos trilogy (quartet?). Must have a re-read of his work over the next year. And I'm also working through Chandler again (though I never got with Hammett. I've Teh Dain Curse on my TBR pile for ages).

And to agree with othesr, both Elmore Leonard and Carl Hiaasen are high on my list. I'd add the Kinkster up there with them too.

Not that I hate English crime. I'll read Ruth Rendell from the library. The last authors I bought and loved were MC Beaton (the new Agatha Raisin novels) and the superb Simon Brett. Now he's on top form just now with the Fetherling(?) mysteries. His whole back catalogue is worth a look too. And Brookmyre. And Mike Ripley. Some good stuff all over the place.

[Grammath]

I know it may look from my previous posts as if I've got something against UK crime writers, but that's not true at all.

To pick five at random, I liked what I've read of Chris Brookmyre, Mark Timlin, Jake Arnott, Ian Rankin and Lindsey Davis.

Chris, try "The Thin Man" or "The Glass Key" for Hammett, although I confess I've not read what is supposed to be his masterpiece, "The Maltese Falcon".

I tried Pelecanos's "The Big Blowdown" and couldn't get on with it at all, especially disappointing as I thought it would definitely be the sort of thing I'd like.

...and I've got some Kinky on my TBR pile, a Jewish C&W singer, I reckon what's not to like?

[jebbie74]

What a toss up! If anyone was to look at my Bookshelf on Bookcrossing you would notice that I crave British and American crime writers. Although, when I am out at the thrift shops I do try to find the Brit ones over the American. I think personally, that I like the language better. It's almost as if I can hear the different dialects coming from the Brit police. I like the terminology used, the names of the characters and how "small-town" they are often portrayed to be. When I want "down and dirty" I switch to American.
But to throw a third option in the loop....I have recently discovered a Canadian crime author who almost gives me a mix between the two. James Hawkins used to live in England and is now back in Canada. As much as I have never been a big Canadian supporter, I give two big thumbs up to him.

[Pannx]

I really like Peter Robinson as a good British author and Ian Rankin is brilliant. I prefer British stuff cos it's familiar and feels more gritty. US crime authors always seem so intent on telling us exactly what they ate in the local seafood 'joint'. I find British stuff more gritty and less glamorous, but that's maybe cos it's on home turf.

[manders]

Not a big fan of Ian Rankin, I can never seem to get into his books, but I agree about Peter Robinson, his books are great and a really easy read.

[Czar Silver]

I find that a lot of American authors give me an insight into a culture that can be extremely alien to me. Inspite of the obvious spread of American culture, really good American authors transport me to a whole new time and place. I prefer some American authors because of this as it makes it easier for me to escape into the story. That said I find myself overlaying their descriptions on to places that I know and adapting them in my mind.

Sorry, having read that back it all seems a bit spacy and rambling. Joe R Lansdale's books are a good example of a writer who transports me. Apart from great characters such as Hap and Leonard, he writes with a sparse lyricism about contemporary rural America. It is an area that is not often featured in TV or film, apart from in horror films. However, he gives you a feel for the struggles people face in towns that are literally and figuratively miles from the big cities.

[Ruth]

I prefer British crime writers. Peter Robinson is probably my favourite, or Mark Billingham, and I quite like Ian Rankin. I'm not so keen on American crime writers, but I LOVE American tv crime series, whereas British series about crime do nothing for me whatsoever.

[GERBAM]

Hi All
This is a terrific thread and the posts I have read are most interesting.Over the years I have moved away from American mystery writers ... I personally don't like schtick in a thriller ... I've read Grafton, Muller, Mitchell, even Ellen Hart and Jeffrey Deaver. I have given up on them because IMHO they don't write especially well and they seem to keep writing the same books over and over just like Robert Parker.

The authors most of you listed are in a different category from those above. I read them and enjoy them but I still look to the Brits and to translations of books from other countries. Those I find offer the best writing. Plot, character aside I enjoy words, allusions, symbols and a puzzle. I know that's my personal opinion and i am not pushing it on anyone.

If you are looking for new, exceptional writers not already listed i recommend Patricia HIghsmith, Henning Mankell, MInette Walters, Ian Rankin, Donna Leon we all can make very long lists so I'll stop here.

GERBAM
ENJOY

[chuntzy]

If you are looking for new, exceptional writers not already listed i recommend Patricia HIghsmith, Henning Mankell, MInette Walters, Ian Rankin, Donna Leon we all can make very long lists so I'll stop here.

GERBAM
ENJOY

Hi, Gerbam.

On the thread 'Crime, Thrillers and Mysteries:Authors and Books' most of these good writers have been discussed. I'll have to get round to Patricia Highsmith: she's the only one you've mentioned that I've never tried.

[GERBAM]

Chuntzy
Thank you for the heads up ... I am so new here I have not had a chance to review the threads.
I think you will enjoy HIghsmith
GERBAM

[Ang]

I think I won't dare say which country I think is better at crime writing, but my favourite British crime writer is Christopher Brookmyre. He was mentioned earlier in the thread a couple times. His books are hard hitting yet hilarious. I would say you should give a bit of space between reading them rather than reading them back to back, but do give him a try. I think my personal favourite would be one of A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away or One Fine Day in the Middle of the Night. I have his lastest A Tale Etched in Bload and Hard Black Pencil on the shelf, not read yet.

I've seen him at Edinburgh Book Festival and he's surprisingly down to earth, given the characters and situations he creates. Very nice accent too. I'm a bit partial to the Scots though.

[dumpling]

Very interesting thread! I don't think it ever would have occurred to me that American crime writers are better. I suppose it's a matter of taste but, to me, it's always gone without saying that British writers do it better.

I agree with GERBAM - American writers seem to add far too much "schtick" (giggle) into their writing.

Agatha Christie, Josephine Tey, Margery Allingham, Dorothy L. Sayers, Ruth Rendell, P.D. James ... it's not just British writers, but British women writers who stand out to me.

[GERBAM]

Hi Dumpling

all i have to say is TOUCHE!

ENJOY
GERBAM

[bee2zed]

Hi Dumpling and Gerbam,

Well said. Totally agree. I think American crime writers tend to be like American crime shows - somehow chucking in way too much blood and guts, with no appreciation of subtlety. Look at Reg Hill's wonderful Dalziel and Pascoe novels, or Dexter's magnificent Morse. They could only be British.

Cheers ...

[GERBAM]

bee2Zed hi
I was just re-reading a few posts and when i came across yours i pondered it a bit and compared the crime shows i enjoy to some of the books i enjoy except for 'MYSTERY' i don't know how many of you are familiar with that program.

Your point about blood and guts, and the lack of subtly in US crime novels has a long history. Actually i don't want to be pedantic yet put in context one can understand how the American mystery/thriller/suspense novel has been evolving since Poe. And many years passed until Doyle and Collins pick up the gauntlet adn really set teh genre afire. Their novels come from a very different place than novels here.

Just a few sentences more if I may. The hardboiled detective stories of the 30s thru the early 50s (known as pulp fiction) grew out of the stories of the west. Stories that were pedestrian and made clear who the 'good guy' is and who the 'bad guy' by the color of their hats. lol lol :D Hammett, Chandler, Spillane and teh others who followed along drew from the rough/tough history of the cowboy and teh sheriff. i think the film HIGH NOON is a perfect example of where Sam Spade, for example, came from

'nuff from me i'd like to hear from you
GERBAM

[Hazel]

I think American crime writers tend to be like American crime shows - somehow chucking in way too much blood and guts, with no appreciation of subtlety.

That surely cannot be said about American writers like Raymond Chandler, Mickey Spillane, Michael Connelly, Erle Stanley Gardener, Patricia Highsmith...

[GERBAM]

That surely cannot be said about American writers like Raymond Chandler, Mickey Spillane, Michael Connelly, Erle Stanley Gardener, Patricia Highsmith...
HAZEL
I agree w/you 100%
When I talk about writers from other countries being better to read than American writers I am thinking of people like
Carolyn Hart
Robert Parker
Sue Grafton
Jeffrey Deaver
Add in the animal, vegetable, recipe and cake ones.

I know I know some of you adore those writers and that's fine ... enjoy ... but IMO they write the same stories over and over again in a very simplistic way.

[r3nu4l]

I simply don't have a preference either way!

From the British side I love, Ian Rankin, Peter Robinson and Mark Billingham.

From the American side, I like Jeffery Deaver, Michael Connolly and Carl Hiaasen.

I do think that the American writers are better at "bigger" stories. What do I mean by that? I mean that American authors tend to be better at writing stories about crime conspiracies that involve entire corporations or federal agency collusion etc while British authors focus on the (Chief)Inspector who works his way through the case mostly on his/her own and usually agains a local low-life, town councillor, stranger that arrived on a bus. Less of the little guy versus the big guy, maybe it's a reflection of American thinking.

On the other hand I think Americans do wry/dry comedy better in their crime novels than British authors. I'd like to see Mark Billingham have a go...after all he's also a stand-up comic!

[fireball]

I wouldn't say us Brits are better writers per say, anymore than their American counterparts, They both are different and in there own way BOTH are very satisfying, at least to me. True I have some English writers I follow, as too do I American ones, I find that diversity REALLY is the spice for me, and their differences are what make them so. And compelling as well.! :o

No matter what genre either countries men/women write about. :)

I'll shut up now, don't want to be shot down in the crossfire, like.

[fireball]

Anyway, all these names being recommended, and I've never heard of most of them. So much to look forward to, and so many shelves to be filled. Love it!

Bloody hell man! you mean Royal you NEVER heard of Stephen Booth.!!!!!!!

Get thee hence asap to : http://www.stephen-booth.com/ NOW.!

And may you never look back, you'll think twice about going to that neck of the woods for yer holidays.!! :scared:

EHHH Rhiannon, old thing I think saying: If you like things a bit softer, what about Stephen Booth you DO mean THAT Stephen do you,? because "Heart Beat" he definitely is NOT. SOFT!!!??? Stephen????!

Mind you, you ARE correct in saying : his series is excellent - the writing is strong and the characters are genuinely interesting. what you neglected to say was... he'll also scare c##p out of you and anything else while he's at it too. The Peak District can be the most forlorn and godforsaken place to be lost in...and worse,.. to be murdered in.

Cooper and Fry are No SOFTIES, not by a long chalk, and we Boothites know it. :D

So Rhiannon, we'll be seeing you, in The Peak District, then.? Bring a compass...you might need it.! :yikes:

[litarena]

Most of the suggestions appear to be on the contemporary side. I really did enjoy R Austin Freeman's Dr Thorndyke stories. I liked Creasey's Gideon of The Yard too. Mind you, a bit of an English police procedural never goes far amiss, I think.

[GERBAM]

I wouldn't say us Brits are better writers per say, anymore than their American counterparts, They both are different and in there own way BOTH are very satisfying, at least to me. True I have some English writers I follow, as too do I American ones, I find that diversity REALLY is the spice for me, and their differences are what make them so. And compelling as well.! :o

No matter what genre either countries men/women write about. :)

I'll shut up now, don't want to be shot down in the crossfire, like.

LOL LOL LOL fireball no shooting you down from this mystery reader. I think questions like this are simply rhetorical and don't make for good conversation. Rather most folks tend to defend their idea of what is 'right' or 'good' or 'better' which is circular and depends upon presonal taste.

I respect everyone's right to read what they choose and to shout from the rooftops how wonderful they found their read. it's fun to share and we usually want people to enjoy as we did.

For me the larger question is what makes you like/read/be entertained/ addicted to certain writers regardless of where they are from. I had an interesing experience the other night going thru a ton of old mystery teaching materials i still had in my files ... i was amazed at how far (IMHO) i have come in choosing better mystery/thriller/suspense writers over the many years i have been reading them. I left some writers behind very quickly>>boring or too 'cute' or too cat or too recipes for me; I left behind writers whose writing and style just turned me off.

[I know I sound like an elitist snob ... and I don't define myself as elitist ... but I am certainly a book snob. AND PROUD OF IT. Whether or not you know by what I see you listing in your chosen reads you too are snobs ... won't settle for hacks or pretension. I think that's a good thing.]

fireball you say that the diversity is what does it for you and you spot on!!
Thank goodness all of us have our special writers and are willing to experiment with new ones but most of us are really picky, I think, or you wouldn't be posting on a site like this.

IMHO OF COURSE ;)

[fireball]

:D First off my thanks to you GERBAM ;) be a booksnob or even an elitist snob , nawt wrong with that; you to were spot on with...Thank goodness all of us have our special writers and are willing to experiment with new ones but most of us are really picky, I think, or you wouldn't be posting on a site like this. :D nice, an very true too.

[I know I sound like an elitist snob ... and I don't define myself as elitist ... but I am certainly a book snob. AND PROUD OF IT. Whether or not you know by what I see you listing in your chosen reads you too are snobs ... won't settle for hacks or pretension. I think that's a good thing.] So, be sounding elitist Ger old thing, I'm of a certain age where I too am elitist-ish as well again nawt wrong with that either.

If my pathetic excuse of a memory (and after two strokes, mercifully not all in one go mind.!) serves, in the grand scheme of things it really is not that long time ago that Agatha C, N.Marsh, Dorothy L. Sayers (English scholar and writer whose numerous mystery stories featuring the witty and charming Lord Peter Wimsey combined the attractions of scholarly erudition and cultural small talk with the puzzle of detection.) etc. and her contemporaries were thought by "real elitists" to be utter dross and fit only for the "lower orders" as my late father would've have put it.
Well Gerbam, have look at... :
http://www.crimetime.co.uk/features/womenincrime.php
The thing with these so-called elitists shower is..what there 'into' really so off the wall, if not just downright just incomprehensible in plain bloody English to us "plebes" they 'think' there being cleaver, sadly their dead wrong, but don't tell them that they cry easily, 'sides these elitists shower "think" James Joyce was f'ing brill, excuse me while I barf.!

There's nothing wrong at all Ger, about being a bit on the choosy side, shows you've matured and have a smell of a good 'un when you see it, not that too far behind you either meself.! :o :-)

[r3nu4l]

'sides these elitists shower "think" James Joyce was f'ing brill, excuse me while I barf.!

Huh? :D Well I'm no elitist book snob but I have to say that James Joyce was brilliant! I love his stuff.* I like my trashy crime novels as much as the next person but I like my classics too and of all the classics, some of Joyce's stuff is amazing!






*Now if I could only finish that damn Ulysses book I'd be doing well. The fact I'm from Dublin makes me even more ashamed not to have completed it yet. :)

[Royal Rother]

Only just seen fireball's rather weak recommendation of Stephen Booth. (No, never heard of him, but I promise I'll put him on the Wish List!)

My favourite crime writers are almost all American I have to admit. I enjoy British crime for sure, but off the top of my head I haven't found a modern British crime writer to challenge Michael Connelly, Greg Iles, George Pelacanos and James Lee Burke for e.g.

Still, there are probably more than a few thousand writers I haven't read yet. Maybe Stephen Booth might come close!

I have just started the first of Peter James' detective novels - I do like his writing and although this is his first of the genre I have high hopes...

[fireball]

Huh? :D Well I'm no elitist book snob but I have to say that James Joyce was brilliant! I love his stuff.* I like my trashy crime novels as much as the next person but I like my classics too and of all the classics, some of Joyce's stuff is amazing!
Huuuuh.!? well we'll agree to disagree on THAT bit eh r3nu4l :) :D

*Now if I could only finish that damn Ulysses book I'd be doing well. The fact I'm from Dublin makes me even more ashamed not to have completed it yet. :) Nawt wrong with from coming Dublin old son had been there myself for quiet sometime too, and Dubs were just phished off
JJ as much as any sensible person is with Joyce.!

Can't remember that chap in the SENATE's name, (to fellow Brits the Senate in Ireland's Parliament is somewhat similar to the House Of Lords, and their called Senators), well that bloke's absolutely bloody fantastic to listen to, he is without doubt a Joycean egghead, at least without insulting ones intelligence, explains the working's of Joyce that my old masters at school couldn't even compare.

Miss "dirty ol' Town " I do.
Thanks again r3nu4l.

[fireball]

Only just seen fireball's rather weak recommendation of Stephen Booth. (No, never heard of him, but I promise I'll put him on the Wish List!)

Weak?!!! recommendation!!!? me???? I beg to differ on THAT bit of info, been with Stephen since the off, and I wouldn't give a rec if he wasn't upto it.
Sorry you've never heard of 'til now, well better late then never, what Royal Rother.? We Booth-ites are a patient lot.

Still, there are probably more than a few thousand writers I haven't read yet. Maybe Stephen Booth might come close! You got THAT bit right, exceptin' of course there's no MIGHTs about it.!

I have just started the first of Peter James' detective novels - I do like his writing and although this is his first of the genre I have high hopes...

Peter James read some his, classification: tepid to lukewarm. :D

Try summat more advanced for you, another "weak recommendation" for you Royal, how about: http://www.michaeljecks.co.uk/ he's not half bad either. ;) If you've got the Ballards.... of course. :scared:

[Royal Rother]

You are Stephen Booth AICMFP.

Right, I am off to buy Black Dog this lunchtime. I shall report back in due course!

[fireball]

Get yer hair cut you look a mess. :D

[Royal Rother]

I'm due a good Pledging this week actually.

[fireball]

Nice. Don't choke on it now .

[fireball]

I quite agree with most of what's being said, especially when it, of sorts, comes to a matter of taste.

The Americans write differently as do we Brits, though I think to say the yanks write BETTER then the UK counterparts is stretching it just a bit.

Like take this fellamelad, now he's rough and ready...might require an acquired taste though. And he is John Sandford especially his "Prey Series" You'll either :scared: or find him :cool:
see this site for info. : http://www.johnsandford.org/directory.html

Are another kind of "cop" partially X.Files-ish bloke he's known as Agent Pendergast written wonderfully by Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child..
See this site for info. : http://www.prestonchild.com/
Now He is uber :cool: is are Agent Aloysius Pendergast with his 'sidekick at times his old friend NYPD Lieutenant Vincent D’Agosta, brill stuff.!

Watch out for the Diogenes Trilogy, you could say Cain and Abel up-date, oh crap,! who'd even want a brother like Diogenes.
:
Brimstone - Part One of the Diogenes Trilogy
Dance of Death - Part Two of the Diogenes Trilogy
Book of the Dead - Part Three of the Diogenes Trilogy
Their on sale now.


Two very different American writers, both quite excellent in their own way.



Then there's Stephen Booth a great British crime writer see this for info.
: http://www.stephen-booth.com/ And another crime writer that is very different is this bloke...Michael Jecks see this place for info. :
http://www.michaeljecks.co.uk/

[RosaLeigh]

I much prefer British crime writing I have to say. I have read a couple of American authors but I just can't get into them. The book by an American author I most enjoyed was 'Broken Angels' by Richard Montanari, simply because I found the plot fascinating.

I just ccan't get in to them, probably because I love the UK and prefer 'colours' and 'favourites' to American grammer which I hate having to read and try and understand. I am also familiar with the culture and police set up of Britain which makes me enjoy British novels much more. You could call them home comforts I suppose.

Some highly recommended British authors - Mark Billingham, Peter James, Simon Kernick, Stephen Booth, Paul Johnston, Simon Beckett, Denise Mina, Laura Wilson, Alex Gray .. amongst others.

[Nobby]

Why are American crime writers better than their UK counterparts?
Presupposition in the question.
They are not, probably just seem to be as they are writing from a different culture and this helps in the process of reading fiction (we are taken further away from our 'reality')

To 'Waters' if you think James lee Burke is writing by numbers try some earlier stuff, his 'Collection' has novels from 1986/70/71 and gives a great flavour of life in the US.
Nobby.

[pedromanc]

Having looked over this thread it seems people are influenced more by personal taste rather than the talent of the actual writers. I myself prefer British crime writers as they seem to have more of a grounding in reality, American writers seem to over-do everything and can spoil an otherwise good story. I suppose if your a bit of a fantasist then you will prefer American writers, whereas if you like gritty realism then you will be more drawn to British writers. I also like to have some form of connection with the books im reading and feel i can understand and empathise with British rather than American characters in the books i read, other readers prefer to get as far away from their own reality as possible so foreign writers are more likely to appeal to them. I think its really a case of who is prefered and not who is better. Very interesting thread though as i always assumed that most British readers naturally were drawn to British writers.

[Royal Rother]

Weak?!!! recommendation!!!? me???? I beg to differ on THAT bit of info, been with Stephen since the off, and I wouldn't give a rec if he wasn't upto it.
Sorry you've never heard of 'til now, well better late then never, what Royal Rother.? We Booth-ites are a patient lot.

You got THAT bit right, exceptin' of course there's no MIGHTs about it.!



Peter James read some his, classification: tepid to lukewarm. :D

Try summat more advanced for you, another "weak recommendation" for you Royal, how about: http://www.michaeljecks.co.uk/ he's not half bad either. ;) If you've got the Ballards.... of course. :scared:

So, oddball, I finally got to Stephen Booth - couldn't get Black Dog so started on the 2nd of the series, Dancing With The Virgins.

Very good - particularly interesting relationship between Fry and Cooper that I'm sure smoulders along throughout the series.

Rather slow-paced, not a lot of action, almost tepid at times, (poor man's Peter James) but Booth really gives an excellent feel of the Peaks and its inhabitants and ways of life, and, in all seriousness, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Already started on Blood On The Tongue...

Cheers for the (rather weak) recommendation.

[White Raven]

I'm afraid that fireball will not be able to respond to your post.

fireball passed away on the day after Christmas from what I suspect was a massive stroke. I had a serious online relationship with him for over 4 years, but his family have not gotten back to me with what took his life for sure.

My suspicions are based on the fact that he had had at least two very serious strokes in the past - one of which he was VERY lucky to have survived - and continued to suffer from ill health as a result.

He seemed to be fine when he was posting online on Christmas Day, but when his family went to pick him up to take him out on Boxing Day, they found him dead in his apartment.

I miss him desperately.

[White Raven]

Just thought I'd post a recommendation that fireball made to me, and that I really enjoyed.

The book is called River of Darkness, and the author is Rennie Airth. Airth is originally from South Africa. I haven't read the second book in the series, The Blood-Dimmed Tide yet, but RoD is quite excellent.

It's supposedly going to be a trilogy, the third of which will be published later on this year. Its title is The Dead of Winter.

It's so sad that fireball will never get to read the third book, as he was so excited when he discovered Airth's work.

[Royal Rother]

Oh dear oh dear - so very sorry to hear that.

A quirky and entertaining poster who I suspect would have rather enjoyed me calling him oddball... (hope so anyway... :o )

Having read 2 of the series, Stephen Booth is now high up on my list of English crime writers and I would have liked fireball to have known that his recommendation had been so well received.

RIP fireball.

[White Raven]

I don't think he would have been offended, he was a very good-natured individual - even though life had dealt him enough blows that he should have been quite angry about it all.

He'd recommended Stephen Booth to me, as well. But he suggested that the books should be read in the order in which they had been written. Not being made of money at the moment, I've been trying to track the books down in thrift stores, and used book stores. I've found #3-6, but have not managed to find #1 or 2 yet.

He was probably the biggest contributor to Stephen's message board, using the moniker of steelclaw32 (it's the online ID he used most).

I met him on the message board for author Michael Slade.

[megustaleer]

I take it that none of you realise that Stephen Booth is a founder member (http://www.bookgrouponline.com/forum/member.html?u=119) of BGO? He's been a member even longer than I have.

Unfortunately he has yet to make his first post ;)

[Royal Rother]

Blimey, no - certainly hadn't realised that!

[Flingo]

He may not be posting, but he has been back..."last activity 5th May 2008". I wonder if someone PM'd him, prompting the login? :cool:

[David]

He may not be posting, but he has been back..."last activity 5th May 2008". I wonder if someone PM'd him, prompting the login?
That could have been down to one of our PM spammers, who seem to target old members who haven't posted in a long time - presumably with the thought that regulars will be more likely to report them.

[joyofbooks]

Hello! This is my first day on Book Group but so far I love it as Paolo's question about US and UK crime writers is one I am obsessed with! What a great start. :D

For me, US crime and thriller writers hit the pace on the head. I've just finished 'Exposure' by Alex Kava and couldn't put it down. This was mainly because of the pace. It didn't stop once! I recently started 'The Point of Rescue' by Sophie Hannah book and am still reading it as, for me, the pace of the story just isn't there and my interest began to waver. I need to save it for a holiday read I think as I've heard such great stuff about it but my attention span is too short :)

I love crime books because I love to become instantly absorbed with the story and in solving the crime. I hate to admit it, but I don't want to have to work hard so as a whole I find US writers an easier read. Having said that, if the book is really different or slightly quirky then for me words rule and UK authors often give us pieces of genius. Am just starting 'What Was Lost' by Catherine O'Flynn and so far it is all it has been said to be.

[Aurélien Arkadiusz]

As readers, our tastes vary but nearly everyone who reads a lot of Crime and Mystery Fiction will have both Brit and Yank favourites - and writers whose books, however highly rated by others, turn us off.
I think American crime writers tend to be like American crime shows - somehow chucking in way too much blood and guts, with no appreciation of subtlety. I guess part of it is the danger/violence element (guns etc.), plus Americans are much better than we Brits at paranoia, an essential element of good crime fiction - just look at the world around you for proof.Plenty of examples support both these views - perhaps reflecting the more violent nature of American society - but they are certainly not true of all American crime/mystery writers.

My main gripe about American crime and mystery fiction is that far too many of these gritty tales of corruption and crime go totally over the top and refuse to recognize that there is any decency or kindness in the world. In this sort of American crime and mystery fiction certain character types are almost always thorougly corrupt and evil. There are few decent and well-meaning millionaires or politicians in such books. And [protestant] ministers of religion are almost invariably portrayed as corrupt, hypocritical sleazeballs.

Okay, one doesn't read crime and mystery fiction for an uplifting experience, but need so many American books belonging to this genre be so overwhelmingly noire?

In this area I do feel that many Brit crime and mystery writers offer the reader a more sanely balanced - and hence more believable - view of the world.

[BUDDY GORGEOUS]

I don't think the US has Better crime writers than the UK and i wouldn't say the UK has better either. Im usuallu dissapointed and amazed in equal measure by both sides of the puddle.

It comes down to who's writing it, not from where they come from.

I started reading Chelsea Cain's 'Heart sick' and after 100 pages i threw it in the bag ready for a charity shop, i thought it was total pants. But i read a British author, Tim Willocks and his books blew me away. I dislike Stuart Macbride novels but love Pelecanos ect. ect. Both sides of the pond have their good and bad. None are better than the other, it's all down to the individual writing the book.

[Hazel]

But i read a British author, Tim Willocks and his books blew me away.Which book did you read Buddy? Green River Rising?

[BUDDY GORGEOUS]

Haha, yeah, i read that and Blood stained kings... got me hooked instantly :). I seen a thread about GRR and was suprised to finally find someone who has read the book. Apologies for my previous comment if your a Chelsea Cain fan haha.

[Jez]

Is it just me or do US writers carry a bit more heft than British writers? I know there’s dross produced in the States (Patterson springs to mind as a culprit) and I’m sure they produce authors as anodyne as our very own snore merchant, Robert Goddard, but there really are much more interesting crime novelists emanating from America at the moment. Maybe it’s the hugeness of the country or the fact they have more guns. Anyone have any ideas why this is so?

Anyway, my top three crime/thriller authors are:
1) George Pelecanos – writes rich, savage books about Washington DC. Start with the Big Blowdown or the Sweet Forever.
Great - if you like depth and brilliant dialogue.
Not so good - for those who like endless twists.

2) Carl Hiaasen – incredibly funny satirist who writes brilliant revenge comedies about the despoliation of Florida.
Great – if you like funny, smart writing.


Not so good – if you’re the chief executive of an oil company.

3) James Lee Burke – lyrical, evocative writer who can also tell a great story. Bases his books in New Orleans and Montana. Doesn’t like oil companies either.
Great – if you like your writing rich and chewy but need a great tale too.
Not so good – If polysyllables make your teeth hurt.

And I thought you had them nailed in one ! I think Americans are generally more open with their language and dirt and grit I have to agree with you about Pelecanos and Hiaasen one of the funniest novels I ever read by him was Lucky You ! if you like Hiaasen and James Lee Burke you ought to love SLIDE by Saira Viola also savagely satirical with a crime theme one of the characters has "BNP" connections and halitosis and of course the amazingly cool James Ellroy can't get enough of his staccato prose jumping at ya I thought The Big Nowhere White Jazz and so many others superb . Knife crime is rampant in the inner cities with gun crime on the increase I thnk it does matter where you draw your experiences from but there were some great crime stories based in England before post modern fiction . Still agree though the Americans have it sussed.

[YBee]

There are good US crime writers and some who are ...... not so good

There are good UK crime writers and some who are ...... not so good

Those on my 'good' list might be on your 'not so good' and vice versa

It is the characters and the stories that make a good book, not the nationality of the author or the locations he/she chooses.

Danuta Reah has been mentioned earlier - not a very well known author but the books are good.

Anyone tried Rennie Airth, another lesser known. The John Madden series. Also Lesley Horton's John Handford series?

[Binker]

White Raven mentioned Rennie Airth up string a little bit and I think I've mentioned him once or twice, too. He's very good.

My favorites are all over the map (so to speak). I don't think I like one group of authors (UK or US) more than the other. I don't think I've read Stephen Booth. I will look for his books.

I have read all of Carl Hiaasen's books (even as I struggle to spell his name) because I grew up in Miami. Those are all my old stomping grounds. His last books was a disappointment, though.

[YBee]

The Stephen Booth books are set in the Peak District of Derbyshire and feature Det Con Ben Cooper and Det Sgt Diane Fry. Well worth a look in my opinion

1. Black Dog (2000)
2. Dancing with the Virgins (2001)
3. Blood on the Tongue (2002)
4. Blind to the Bones (2003)
5. One Last Breath (2004)
6. The Dead Place (2005)
7. Scared to Live (2006)
8. Dying to Sin (2007)
9. The Kill Call (2009)
10. Lost River (2010)
11. The Devil's Edge (2011)

[Binker]

Thank you, YBee! I will look for them. I always like to have a TBR pile full of things I can't wait to read.