The Apprentice 4

[David]

So, off we go again on one of the regular televisual highlights of the year.

I love this series - compulsive stuff that's only pretty tangentially about business: fundamentally this is a people show, a sort of intellectually respectable Big Brother.

The start of each series always seems to strike me in the same way: huge amusement at the posturing, which is at its most preposterous at the beginning, but also amazement at the supposed pick of talent (20,000 applicants). Yes, of course they're out of the respective comfort zones of their usual field of business, but they are always staggeringly inept.

Tonight it was seriously like watching a bunch of sixth formers being given some sort of teambuilding task. Everyone pretends to know more than they do, but is less effective at the pretence than people generally learn in adult life. There is the desperate struggle to assert themselves and make a splash but the recoiling from anything actually demanding or that might risk revealing their weakness. They bumbled around the fish-selling task without the first ounce of common sense. Lobsters for a fiver? It was as if they couldn't be expected to know because Mummy normally bought that sort of thing.

Is it just me or are there even more arrogant morons this year than usual? The woman who's the best salesperson in Europe, for instance. Or tonight's casualty, Nick de Lacy-Brown, who stuck the 'de Lacy' bit in his name because he thought it sounded more sophisticated and essentially talked himself out of any chance of surviving in the boardroom by telling Sir Alan how cultured he was and unable to discuss football so that caused a divide with the others. Good grief! He might as well have kicked Sir Al in the penalty area.

Anyway, this looks like being cracking fun as usual. No one's stood out for me yet (except the woman in the daft pink hat) but time will tell!

For quick reference as far as names go in these early stages you can see the Apprentice site here:

BBC - The Apprentice (http://www.bbc.co.uk/apprentice/).

[megustaleer]

That Raef's a bit of a stirrer though, isn't he?

[MisterHobgoblin]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! I missed it. Can I see it on line, I wonder?

[MisterHobgoblin]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! I missed it. Can I see it on line, I wonder?
Yes I can! Fandabbydozy!

[MisterHobgoblin]

So I watched it - and loved every sordid minute. My biggest buzz is that, although I have never set foot anywhere near the private sector since an unhappy three weeks with Toys R Us as a 21yo, I look at these people and know I could do better. OK, there are some competent salesmen, but they haven't the first idea how to analyse a task and arrive at solutions. They don't understand the need to prioritise, to focus on delivery now and worry about recriminations later. In all my professional career, I don't remember raising my voice to colleagues once - and scarcely remember anyone doing so to me. These contestants seem to have led such narrow lives and to have got such little experience or their years. This year, though, I agree they do seem especially like school leavers.

Perhaps the talent in business that is interested in taking a step back for a step up has been used up in the first three series.

Or tonight's casualty, Nick de Lacy-Brown, who stuck the 'de Lacy' bit in his name because he thought it sounded more sophisticated...
To be honest, though, Nick Brown is such a common name that if I were in his position, I'd do the same.

[Hazel]

To be honest, though, Nick Brown is such a common name that if I were in his position, I'd do the same.But "de Lacy'? A bit over-feminized for my liking.

I have never watched The Apprentice, I have a feeling I am missing out on something fun though.

[megustaleer]

I have a feeling I am missing out on something fun though.It is fun - as long as you don't dwell too much on the possibility that our financial and legal professions are full of self-important incompetents such as many participants of the previous series have shown themselves to be.

I don't expect any improvement in the general quality of the competitors this time, but anticipate watching in horrified & joyful fascination as they self-destruct.
:o I am so ashamed :o ;)

[MisterHobgoblin]

Hey chaps! Look what I found: <<< shudder >>> (http://www.delacy-brown.com/index.html)

[David]

Hey chaps! Look what I found: <<< shudder >>> (http://www.delacy-brown.com/index.html)
Oh I'm really sorry he was fired now! How much fun have we missed out on with his departure?!

Anyway, obviously his vocation is actually as an artist...

:rolleyes:

[Calliope]

Hey chaps! Look what I found: <<< shudder >>> (http://www.delacy-brown.com/index.html)
Isn't it brilliant!! Notice all the Christ-like references in the halo-ed (or is it a crown of thorns?) pierced-sided, crucified figure on the right - it's not coincidental, he paints himself as the Christ-child in another self-portrait. Most of his paintings seem to be self-portraits. What a pity he was fired, we could have had so much fun with him and his last exhibition, ‘Between Me and My Reflection’ ego. But perhaps there is a secret message in this, perhaps we haven't missed out but simply have to wait for his Second Coming.

(Actually, on reading his profile, "My father fought the hurdles of his working class upbringing to provide me with privileged education and luxury."

Born Nicholas Brown, this trainee barrister added the 'de Lacy' moniker, inspired by his grandmother, to his own name because he felt it sounded more sophisticated. Although not born into aristocracy, Nicholas feels most comfortable in the role of an artistic, country-hopping lord. A keen fan of amateur dramatics, he supplements his earnings with a mixture of artistic endeavour and property development. He is exceptionally proud of his academic achievements. Nicholas lists his interests as painting, visiting galleries, sunbathing and reading in the bath surrounded by candles. I have a new theory which is that he isn't a real person but just an actor, hired to play the role of first firee, possibly to avoid unnecessary damage to the real contestants' egos. The amateur dramatics and the self-portraits are the clues.)

As for his name, in future I shall follow MrHG's advice and assume that Nick Browns would rather be called DeLacy.

[Hazel]

Oh, that is priceless, I really wish I had seen this twit in action now. A 4 year old copying a Dali - brilliant.

[Calliope]

Oh, that is priceless, I really wish I had seen this twit in action now. A 4 year old copying a Dali - brilliant.Hazel, you can still watch it online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009rd16.shtml?src=ip_mp

[Hazel]

Hazel, you can still watch it online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009rd16.shtml?src=ip_mpOoh, thanks Kim, I'll do that tonight.

[Harley]

I don't do football either, but I wouldn't mind it if he was the ball. :D

[megustaleer]

Much as I hate to be a (slightly) dissenting voice, at least NdL-B's egotistical and adolescent 'work' consists of applying paint to canvas with a degree of skill that most of us couldn't manage.

I prefer that to the stuff produced by the equally self-serving YBAs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_British_Artists)

[Hazel]

Much as I hate to be a (slightly) dissenting voice, at least NdL-B's egotistical and adolescent 'work' consists of applying paint to canvas with a degree of skill that most of us couldn't manage.

Hey! I got an A for my Higher Art and was destined for Glasgow Art School, until my summer job and money persuaded me otherwise. I am affronted. ;)

[Calliope]

Much as I hate to be a (slightly) dissenting voice, at least NdL-B's egotistical and adolescent 'work' consists of applying paint to canvas with a degree of skill that most of us couldn't manage. Skill in applying paint is less important to an artist than originality - and his things aren't just adolescent, they're also rip-offs. Although it's normally girl artists who suffer this (just like girl writers can be over-influenced by Sylvia Plath) I was wondering if he fancied himself as something of a male/English/over-privileged version of Frida Kahlo? Look at these two selves/damaged self/ adult self as nursling images;
http://www.pbs.org/weta/fridakahlo/images/works_2fridas.jpg http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH200/Women/kahlo/broken_columnm.jpg http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH200/Women/kahlo/me_and_my_nursem.jpg

[Hazel]

Oh dear God. The man is a numpty. It's an April Fool's Day hoax surely?

[David]

Continuing to shape up nicely. One of the intriguing things last night was the turnabouts. Raef had come across previously as a complete tool with bizarre hair, but this time round he was clearly a reasonably competent leader with bizarre hair. Last week the women looked to have quite an edge over the men but boy was that reversed this time. I'd thought charging £5 for a lobster defied common sense to a remarkable degree, but when the women pulled a per-item fee out the air which translated into a bill of £5,000 for the hotel's laundry (usual price: £200) I was gobsmacked. Then, at the other extreme they charged just £15 to wash and iron a mass of laundry. In neither case did they have the sensitivity to pick up the utter disbelief of the people with whom they were talking. I loved the debrief after the latter when Lindi asked, "How do you think that went? Did we charge too little? Too much?"

What?! You can actually consider that cost may still have been too high?

Anyway, the very, very sad truth to emerge from the episode - which is something that started to raise its head last year - is that Sir Al doesn't always make these decisions from a commercial perspective. It was nuts to fire Shazia from a business point of view. The error for which she was removed was down to Jenny, however, whilst Jenny should have gone it's very clear that she will make good TV. A sort of Katie Hopkins without the capacity to turn on the charm.

That's why Shazia went and just like the ultimate result last year it undermines the authenticity of the programme for me.

Nevertheless, the Sugar-Daddy knows his business, as ever, and it has indeed made for very good TV and I will continue to watch with interest.

[MisterHobgoblin]

David - I agree with your analysis that Shazia was fired in the interests of good TV. But this is a phenomenon that I first reported even in the first series. And it's a price worth paying for the televisual gems that result. Yesterday was extremely funny - with Jenny making that blonde girl cry, and then just carrying on regardless. I have only once made someone cry in a work context and it still haunts me. And as you pointed out, their lack of sensitivity in not being able to pick up on the utter incredulity of their potential customers to the pricing disasters. At least the £5,000 quote had method behind it (of sorts). The £10 for the huge pile of laundry (£15 for it to be washed and ironed) had no method at all - it was just as arbitrary as a tramp's 10p for a cup of tea.

On the boys team, I was very impressed by the ex army chap Simon. He was loyal, positive, motivational - and a great charge hand. But I was sorry when he said how great Raef was - like an officer to his own Sergeant Major - like the good old days. For me, this makes Simon an absolute superstar, but sadly betrayed his own lack of belief in himself as an officer. It sort of rules him out for the apprenticeship.

I part company with you, though, David when you suggest Jenny as this year's Katie. Last year, Sir Alan had decided in his own mind to appoint Katie and it was only the intervention of the TV producers that persuaded him to change his mind (and doubtless Katie was paid off handsomely). He was clearing the field for her and would probably have had her vs the unappointable Kristina for the final - purely for the TV value. Simon only got it by virtue of being the only person left at the table who wasn't Kristina or Katie. Katie, for all her faults, did have professional skills and seemed to be quite good at people skills - she wouldn't have made team members cry. I suspect Jenny is really this year's Jadine, whilst the blonde girl is this year's Jo (remember her...?)

But the really great thing about the Apprentice is it is so watchable, even when you know what the outcome is going to be. It's not about the suspense - it's about the horror of how they reach the outcome.

[David]

And it's a price worth paying for the televisual gems that result.
Yes. I agree with that, but at the same time it loses a lot of its point if it comes across as being just TV.

I have only once made someone cry in a work context and it still haunts me.
You beast. So it should!

;)

At least the £5,000 quote had method behind it (of sorts).
Well, the only real method was coming up with an arbitrary, unresearched unit price to cover any item, regardless of size/complexity of laundering.

On the boys team, I was very impressed by the ex army chap Simon.
Top bloke, wasn't he!

But I was sorry when he said how great Raef was - like an officer to his own Sergeant Major - like the good old days.
Yep, my heart sank a bit at that too. Both the good and bad sides of forces programming came out in him.

For me, this makes Simon an absolute superstar, but sadly betrayed his own lack of belief in himself as an officer. It sort of rules him out for the apprenticeship.
Indeed. He's incredibly organised and efficient - the powerhouse behind their victory - but he's not a leader.

Last year, Sir Alan had decided in his own mind to appoint Katie and it was only the intervention of the TV producers that persuaded him to change his mind (and doubtless Katie was paid off handsomely).
Well, as I'd heard it she confided in one of the crew that she wouldn't accept the post and this meant they re-shot the firing (so to speak). I hadn't heard they'd talked him out of it, just that this fact was brought to his attention. Do you think she would have been paid off for that? Obviously she was breaking the rules by having no intention of accepting so I doubt they would have been obliged to.

He was clearing the field for her and would probably have had her vs the unappointable Kristina for the final - purely for the TV value.
I agree he had her in mind but I don't know why Kristina was unappointable. I thought she was good (in the end!). That Simon was appointed was a total joke, but then that's on the other thread.

Katie, for all her faults, did have professional skills and seemed to be quite good at people skills
Ah, but we all remember you held a flame for Katie...

;)

Yes, I'm actually one of the few who would agree with you that she had a lot of strong capabilities - far more than Jenny, which is the big difference. As far as the crying factor goes, if Kristina hadn't been hard as nails I think she might have done at Katie's hands. Still, the main thought behind my comparison was the strategic bitch factor because the cool, analytical way in which she got Shazia out was highly accomplished and very Katie.

But the really great thing about the Apprentice is it is so watchable, even when you know what the outcome is going to be.
Do you, though? My money wouldn't have been on Shazia last night until very close to the end. And as for Simon last year! The scream still resonates deep in the walls of my living room!

;)

[megustaleer]

I'm pretty well in agreement with all that's been said about last night's programme.
Simon was the most organised and hard working of either team, but my heart sank when he said the bit about working with Raef was like the old times with officer & NCO. I think he has put himself out of the running if he sees himself in that subordinate rôle. I hope I'm wrong. Raef was a surprisingly competent project manager, but swanning off for a coffee with the other two negotiators while the rest sweated away in the laundry was quite telling!

Shazia was the most organized of the girls team, and I was shocked when she was fired, but I can see that the Jenny/Lucinda clash would make more exciting TV. Not sure if I will be able to watch it, 'though. It could become very unpleasant. Jenny is a real bully, and Lucinda now has scapegoat written all over her. You have to be very strong to be an individual in that situation, and she might just find herself being picked on by both little girl gangs.

Am I right in thinking that it was Lindi who jumped in and started selling the fish at random prices in the first episode? And wasn't she the one who either suggested, or eagerly seconded the crazy laundry prices? She seems to like to jump in and get her voice heard first, pushing an opinion before switching on her brain. Shame really, I'd have liked oto support a Brummie. (I had to look up where she went to school -What a relief that it wasn't the one I went to) :rolleyes:

[Calliope]

I've just watched the Top Ten Worst Apprentice Decisions. It was so funny. I still can't believe that after his exercise trampoline TV slot, Simon was hired. But I thought Lieutenant Cheddar with his baked beans tin stove was by far and away the funniest piece of television.

I wonder if this year will throw up some gems like those?

[David]

I've just watched the Top Ten Worst Apprentice Decisions. It was so funny. I still can't believe that after his exercise trampoline TV slot, Simon was hired. But I thought Lieutenant Cheddar with his baked beans tin stove was by far and away the funniest piece of television.

I wonder if this year will throw up some gems like those?
Oh I certainly hope so! I also watched it and it was great to be reminded of some of the older ones - I'd totally forgotten the toe-curling ad with dancing/boozing Mum which may or may not have been advertising some sort of music system.

You choose my top two favourites, Kim, but I'd have them in the other order. For me Simon screwing in his groinal attachments, one after another after another, and then unscrewing them in blissful ignorance has me in fits! Then bouncing on the trampoline noting how he can open his legs! Oh Lord - make him stop before it does me lasting damage... :D

[MisterHobgoblin]

I didn't see the programme, but Lt Cheddar was the funniest episode I remember - it was his utter confidence that made it so special - if he'd ever once given the impression of knowing he was floundering you might have felt sorry for him. But no, he projected utter confidence about things he clearly knew nothing about.

But in terms of funny moments, I'd probably go with the wolf jackets from the first series.

[Calliope]

I'm not particularly sure why he should write one, as opposed to any of the other rejectees, but Tre has a comments column going on The Apprentice website, here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/apprentice/column.html).

[David]

Very much settling into its stride now as another top-notch run.

The food episodes are always excellent for bringing out the worst in contenders, although to be fair I also think it's unresaonable to expect people pitching for a job in business to be able to cook for large numbers of people. That throws too much chance into the equation, depending on the non-business skills of team members. I also thought it was unfair to create the rule that sub-groups had to stay together - clearly that was only to engineer more telly-friendly action.

Anyway, both teams were pretty dreadful last night though the girls deserved to win by virtue of the savvy decision to sell tickets. You could see Sir Al virtually dissolve in delight at that one.

I think the right decision was made to fire Ian, who was a very weak manager, but Kevin has emerged as a top-quality tool. His supreme confidence that he'd done nothing wrong after producing tasteless food which he hadn't costed was remarkable. The bank manager was also reduced to counting on his fingers in order to find out how wrong his initial calculations about how many tomatoes they needed were.

When he came back at the end and told the others how he'd nailed Ian to the floor he'd managed to irritate me deeply - nevertheless, that's what it's all about and I'll enjoy watching him crash and burn.

Jenny was more low-key than I'd have liked last night but still managed to put in some bitching, which is good.

[Calliope]

I forgot to watch out for Jenny, but Kevin was definitely the humourous heart of last night's show. The guy who got kicked off was just incompetent, not particulalry memorable. But Kevin's carbonara with 'ham.. or bacon... or chicken?' was laugh-out-loud funny. And David is right about that 'I nailed him to the floor' moment. Shrieks of laughter here, even from my son.

[BlueSteel]

Someone get this guy a sammy!!!

[megustaleer]

Definitely the right man got fired last night!

I tried not to be too critical of their catering incompetence, but they weren't trying for a Michelin star, or organic restaurant of the year, so why buy fresh tomatoes - skinning them is a nightmare, and clearly Kevin didn't bother. A trip to the Cash&Carry for a few 3Kg cans of tomatoes would have been a more sensible start, not to mention bulk packs of spaghetti, for most catering 'Italian' dishes.
Even supermarket own brands would have saved them a few bob on the branded stuff they were buying.

In spite of his claim to have just wanted to be the cook, not the chef de cuisine, Kevin did put himself forward for that position, even after Simon more or less told him that he would be held responsible if anything went wrong. I was gobsmacked, as it was clear notice, right at the start of the task that he was going to end up in the boardroom if they lost.
I didn't laugh at the "nailed him to the floor" comment, I was too busy picking my jaw up from my floor.
I see that Kevin has a food hygiene certificate, I guess that's what made him think he was up to the job :rolleyes:

I have also read that Ian was actually working for the BBC when he applied for The Apprentice.

I did keep an eye on Jenny - she wasn't hard to miss, especially when watching the 'Bollywood dancer', and in the boardroom.
I also watched Lucinda, who seemed to be on the verge of tears much of the time, for no apparent reason. It looks as though she is going to get the rough end of someone's tongue in next week's show.

Lindi managed to get up my nose again this week, and once more Simon seemed to be the only one talking sense.

[lucyb]

Didn't watch the show but couldn't avoid the comments on the radio post-firing.

Did neither side actually (gasp) ask people in the area what they wanted to eat? Bangers and mash would have been cheaper and easier...

[megustaleer]

Didn't watch the show but couldn't avoid the comments on the radio post-firing.

Did neither side actually (gasp) ask people in the area what they wanted to eat? Bangers and mash would have been cheaper and easier...I think both teams had someone who suggested more 'traditional English' food, but they were ignored.

As far as I could tell neither team did any research to find out what type of food outlets were already in the area, and no-one mentioned the possibility of a local spaghetti or curry house.

[lucyb]

sigh.

[David]

It's a shame Simon stepped up to the photographic plate this week since whilst it was inevtiable he would be sacked at some point I'd like to have seen him get further than many of the other disaster areas.

Still, what was implicit all along came out in spades last night: he's a supremely efficient follower but he's no leader. I suspect deep down he knew that, hence the insecurity-bound defensiveness and over-emotional freneticism. That wasn't helped by Claire, of course, who was so convinced of Simon's ineptitude that she saw fit to railroad him at every opportunity and clearly thought that was fine (loved Margaret's put-down that she treated him like dirt - there seems to be more speaking out by Margaret and Nick in the boardroom this series, which is good). Also Alex, who did a fine turn in eye-rolling and looked pretty laid-back in his part of the task. He's a good strategist, switching his planned attack from Simon to Claire in the boardroom when he saw the way the wind seemed to be blowing, but he's not very capable.

Still, I thought the two teams were equally matched for ineptitude. It has to be said that Lucinda is useless - I don't want her to be because she's been set upon by such harridans, but she is. However, useless comes second to obnoxiousness and spite in my disapproval books and having seen it in Jenny we now have Helene. Even worse in her case is that she allowed that to cloud business judgement: she was absolutely determined Lucinda would fulfil the most technical role in the team even though she had made it clear she was hopeless with technology. How stupid and bloody-minded is that?

I'm actually finding it quite hard to find people to put my money on. In fact, this series is proving to have more people I want to see crash and burn than ever before! I'm increasingly wondering what Lindi does, though, other than keep out of the spotlight. A strategy, presumably.

Still, dear old Simon! I loved his vision of what people in Bluewater would like: they're going to come out looking like slobs and he could fulfil their dreams by making them look like royalty. Lovely. Except that swathing someone in a bolt of blue material as if they've been rolled in a carpet doesn't look overly royal, really.

[Calliope]

I loved Margaret's put-down that she treated him like dirt - there seems to be more speaking out by Margaret and Nick in the boardroom this series, which is good
I've been enjoying their comments too, and also the surprised rections on the candidates' faces when they speak up. Margaret to Alex; 'I was there' was quite gripping drama. The expression on his face as he realised he wouldn't get away with lying was quite priceless.

But what a dishonest bunch they are! Don't they realise the camera is also there? I'm thinking in particular of Helene's denial that Lucinda had said she was technically inept, right from the start. Helene and Claire seem to be cut from the same cloth (and it's not an attractive one). They are all about catty put downs. Jenny can go into this category too. I can see what the producers were going for, though. Katie was very much at the centre of the last series, looking for another Katie must have been high on their agenda. But these women have Katie's snarky mouthiness, not her cleverness.
It has to be said that Lucinda is useless - I don't want her to be because she's been set upon by such harridans, but she is. However, useless comes second to obnoxiousness and spite in my disapproval books and having seen it in Jenny we now have Helene. Even worse in her case is that she allowed that to cloud business judgement: she was absolutely determined Lucinda would fulfil the most technical role in the team even though she had made it clear she was hopeless with technology. How stupid and bloody-minded is that?
Very stupid, and it makes her far worse than Lucinda in my books. Perhaps it's too soon to write Lucinda off. She hasn't done anything herself yet that is as disastrous as Helene's decision to make her responsible for the technical angle. There must be something she's good at.
I'm actually finding it quite hard to find people to put my money on. In fact, this series is proving to have more people I want to see crash and burn than ever before! I'm increasingly wondering what Lindi does, though, other than keep out of the spotlight. A strategy, presumably.
I have a feeling that the people who make it through further just aren't included as much in the earlier episodes so they can extract full drama out of the early departures. Perhaps that is more behind the relative silence of apparently capable candidates (like Jennifer, too). I think Raef might not be the complete ass that he seems to be. He looks and sounds completely incompetent but he seems at least to know when to speak up and when to be quiet which is more than you can say for so many of the others.
Still, dear old Simon! I loved his vision of what people in Bluewater would like: they're going to come out looking like slobs and he could fulfil their dreams by making them look like royalty. Lovely. Except that swathing someone in a bolt of blue material as if they've been rolled in a carpet doesn't look overly royal, really. Orange slobs, remember! Footballers' wives territory. Yet for all that, if Simon did have a unique skill, it was for getting the audience onside. That's rare on this show.

[David]

I can see what the producers were going for, though. Katie was very much at the centre of the last series, looking for another Katie must have been high on their agenda. But these women have Katie's snarky mouthiness, not her cleverness.
I think that's spot-on.

She hasn't done anything herself yet that is as disastrous as Helene's decision to make her responsible for the technical angle. There must be something she's good at.
I hope so, but I somehow doubt it!

I have a feeling that the people who make it through further just aren't included as much in the earlier episodes so they can extract full drama out of the early departures. Perhaps that is more behind the relative silence of apparently capable candidates (like Jennifer, too).
That's certainly happened in earlier series, so maybe.

I think Raef might not be the complete ass that he seems to be. He looks and sounds completely incompetent but he seems at least to know when to speak up and when to be quiet which is more than you can say for so many of the others.
Yes. I thought he was going to be an utter disaster in the first episode but actually he's shown he can be quite capable. I don't think capable enough, but actually I quite like him now.

Yet for all that, if Simon did have a unique skill, it was for getting the audience onside. That's rare on this show.
It is indeed! He seemed a decent bloke and amongst so many foul individuals that certainly makes him stand out. On the You're Fired show he actually spoke quite positively about Claire's capability and was very open to all the criticisms mounted against him. I hope he manages to move beyond the satellite dish installation.

[Elfstar]

It was sad to see Simon go but as has been said he was very much a second in command. He was also (apparently) a thoroughly nice guy.

I was totally astounded at the poor technical knowledge. I am by no means a techie but even I can manage a basic editing suite and surely it wasn't that hard. Even if it was tricky lucinda should not have been in that position.
she seems very soft compared to the others even her dress sense is at odds with the rest.

It is very sad that women in business all too often think that they need to be agressive and pushy to succeed surely somebody somewhere realises that the carrot is better than the stick and for goodness sake why can none of them LISTEN.

Alex irritates me so much, I quite like Raef, Jenny, Helene and Claire give female management a bad name, the others are just so much wallpaper at present

[megustaleer]

Disappointed to see Simon go last night, although the deafening silence when he put himself forward to be team leader was an indication of how much support he would get. It was a mistake to tie himself to the actual photography and lose control of the processing part of the operation.

The Helene/Lucinda disaster was odd. Lucinda was clear at the start that she was no techie (this in spite of her career path including "undertaking various roles involving I.T. in the financial sector"), so Helene's insistence that she should do the task allocated was putting the whole task in jeopardy.

I'm still puzzling as to her motives. Did she want to lose the task? Did she think that all the blame would fall on Lucinda? If Lucinda is so incapable, surely she's no real threat? Not one worth Helene risking her own position by being the leader of a losing team.

We didn't see much of Lindi this time, but in the previous tasks she has been the one to get carried away with enthusiasm for some scatty, non-productive aspect of the task. Likes to make a small rôle appear more important.

In previous series I have had a favourite or two to win, and a 'hate' figure, by now but have neither so far this time - especially now Simon is gone. I 'liked' him, although I hadn't thought he'd win. No-one has enough personality to become my hate figure, although most of them seem pretty unpleasant and incapable of working as part of a team.

[MisterHobgoblin]

I thought last night's episode had one classic, defining Apprentice image. That was the grinning Kentish idiot woman wrapped up in a purple blanket, reclining in a not-quite-regal way. That had me in stitches.

Claire should have gone last night, although I think all three of them will have to be fired at some point, so perhaps the sequencing was left for what makes the best TV. Claire will certainly make for some entertaining viewing. Incidentally, I can't tell her apart from that other woman (or from Janine from EastEnders).

[Calliope]

Wow, we saw a new side to Jennifer tonight. No longer so sure at all that she's the dark horse... that exclusivity deal was just jaw-droppingly stupid, and she came over as quite nasty too.

I quite like Lucinda. I like that when the other women are all in black, she's in a bright green suit with a purple flower in her hair. I like that she listens to people, and think she was a good team leader. Unlike Claire who seems like a younger version of my first boss who was absolutely terrifying. I worked retail while going to uni and she was big and expensively dressed and coiffed and loud, and smelled so strongly of Giorgio (the original one, in the yellow and white stripes, that was banned from restaurants because people couldn't taste their food when someone wore it at the next table) that I and the other teenagers she hired could smell her coming half the store away. Since then, I've been quite convinced that pleasant assertiveness would be a much better way to manage. Lucinda could have been more assertive about splitting the team. Hopefully she's learned. But I think she's much more capable than many of the others and certainly more of a team builder. Also, she seems to understands mathematical probabilities ;)

[megustaleer]

I was really disappointed when Lucinda's team lost the icecream task. She was so much better than anyone else has been at motivating her team.
It's a pity that in every task the two halves of each team divide into 'us' and 'them' instead of working as a whole. I was glad that Alpha's marketing team, who seemed to think they were solely responsible for a roaring success, were identified as the cause of the failure.

I wasn't keen on Lindi - not because she was unpleasant, but because she was queen of the snow job (urban dictionary, definition 1) (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snow+job).
Jennifer is nasty, and I would have liked her to go, but conflict makes good TV.

Lucinda made a big mistake by quoting Helene's opinion of Jennifer in the boardroom - of course she was going to deny it, and the little respect she had shown Lucinda earlier has gone. Helene and Jennifer will now gang up to get Lucinda kicked out.

Still not impressed with Claire. She clearly wasn't committed to the task, spending far too much time sipping Cider with her sales team and lying to the production team. By rights they should have made the least money.
No justice!

I'd like to see how Lee would shape up as a team leader.

[Cootisms]

Lucinda's managing style was very refreshing & I was convinced her team should have won.
Claire didn't spend enough time actually getting her hands dirty when it came to making the actual ice-cream, IMHO. Lucinda was much more organised when it came to getting tasting sessions & appointments set up, albeit via delegating those tasks to the appropriate people. Shame she didn't stick to her guns & split/mix the teams for the selling part, as it might have stopped the Raef-Jenny M-Lindi (OMG, we love ourselves becauser we're ace!) self-congratulating & the stupid exclusivity deal. Jenny M is such an ice queen & seems to be pretty bitchy too.
The other Jenny (red-haired) & Claire seem to be pretty good team-mates/friends, but maybe that's because they're both really bossy, opinionated & rather bitchy too.
I loved Lee speaking up for Lucinda, saying that she was a brilliant team leader (in & out the boardroom) & defending her after they found out they'd lost and Jenn had just spoken up about there being issues with splitting up the team. His "That's bullshit & you know it!" was brilliant and it was good to see someone being honest/standing up for the truth. Hopefully Lucinda will start to blossom, as I don't think we've seen all she can do yet! Plus I like seeing her colourful outfits... I like her honesty & the fact she won't descend to the other girls' levels of bitchiness, though her reported comment of Jenn M being a snake according to Helene wasn't great, there *must* have been another way to make that point. I can definitely see the other girls ganging up on her & trying to stitch her up (poss Helene has already attempted to with the photo task), but I think Lucinda's too clever for that!

[MisterHobgoblin]

For me, the worrying thing was seeing part of Lindi's audition tape on You're Fired. Gone was any pretense that people were selected based on CVs and interviews - it was down to screen tests.

I agree that Lucinda was stupid to talk about Helene's comments in front of Jennifer - and if Lucinda wanted to freak Jennifer she could have reported the comments but not attributed them - keep Jennifer guessing. I think Jennifer is so bad at her brand of poison that she is funny - and with her comedy haircut and second best salesman in Europe routine she obviously fancies herself as the office monkey.

I have problems with Helene and Claire as I can't tell them apart. They look identical, sound identical and behave identically. It was really confusing when they were on different teams because you never knew which team you were looking at.

[David]

I was really pleased to see Lucinda make a generally good job of project management last night and I totally agree - her team should have won. Indeed, if it hadn't been for that eleventh hour deal with the restaurant by Claire's team they would have done. Claire having a merry old time with the cider and missing the tasting session in the village hall was poor and her approach to organising the sales shambolic. She ended up with the big deal at the restaurant by wandering into it at the end of the day: it was chance, not effective management.

Still, to be fair to her she did her best to take on board Al's criticisms and was a much nicer individual, but as Carol Thatcher observed in You're Fired! - does a leopard change its spots?

I just died when Lucinda named Helene in the comments about Jennifer - up to that point she'd actually got Helene on-side, which was a remarkable achievement given where they were last week, but now that's been wrecked. Showing the fallout back at the house afterwards I think can only suggest that this is going to be a problem that grows.

The outrageous arrogance of the sales team and their love-in was ludicrous. Again, I go back to my earlier analogy of sixth formers who are full of themselves and their potential but actually understand very little of life. They thought they had done a superb job, yet as Sir Alan pointed out if he'd known quite what they'd promised he would have taken those sales from the balance sheet. Lindi was the right person to go: Jennifer made the rash promise but Lindi was the manager for that team (which she constantly crowed about) and said nothing. Also, she made the useless appointments with people who made their own ice cream (and to the end continued with the preposterous notion that because she was a good salesperson she could have sold it to them! :rolleyes: ) and throughout she's just not made any impact. Objectionable as she is, Jennifer actually has more business potential about her.

What's been so different with this series in comparison with earlier ones is that there have been no consistent figures of irritation. Remarkably I will watch one week and think a particular individual is obnoxious and deserves everything that's coming to them, then the following week that person will drift into the background or even experience a total inversion of personality and someone else will crawl out of the woodwork to become the object of my spleen! This time round Helene had been rehabilitated from last week and Jennifer suddenly came to the fore as bitch-woman extraordinaire.

This can't really be from the editing because any producer worth their salt would be trying to engineer consistency for the audience and mould characters whom we like and loathe for the soap of it all, consequently it's very strange indeed and makes future episodes all the more compelling!

[megustaleer]

It seems to me that Lucinda is bad at 'office politics' . She is clearly upset when bitchiness and unfair criticism is aimed at her, and isn't skilled enough in deviousness to turn the tables on her persecutors without looking like a tell-tale.
Unfortunately Simon's experience demonstrated what happens to the nice guys :(

One more thing about Claire and her 'sales team'. - Their snarky comments about us folk who live in the sticks (especially near a village pond) really got up my nose!
Arrogant ****s

[Calliope]

What's been so different with this series in comparison with earlier ones is that there have been no consistent figures of irritation. Remarkably I will watch one week and think a particular individual is obnoxious and deserves everything that's coming to them, then the following week that person will drift into the background or even experience a total inversion of personality and someone else will crawl out of the woodwork to become the object of my spleen! This time round Helene had been rehabilitated from last week and Jennifer suddenly came to the fore as bitch-woman extraordinaire.

This can't really be from the editing because any producer worth their salt would be trying to engineer consistency for the audience and mould characters whom we like and loathe for the soap of it all, consequently it's very strange indeed and makes future episodes all the more compelling! It's almost always a woman who is particularly objectionable, though. I wonder, again, if the producers were so keen on having another Katie-type (she was good value) that they've really stocked up on potential bitches. Jenny, Jennifer, Helene, Claire... they're all just nasty, nasty pieces of work.

I thought Lindy's ego trip was hysterically funny, by the way. She wasn't as bitchy as some of the other girls, but all that mutual adoration going on in the car, I'm surprised Raef could fit in that back seat, with their two heads. As the third member of the failed 'sales team' and the only one not to be singled out, once again, he showed that he knows when to hold his tongue.

[Tess]

One more thing about Claire and her 'sales team'. - Their snarky comments about us folk who live in the sticks (especially near a village pond) really got up my nose!
Arrogant ****s
I thought the same thing, they were being extremely rude and I was disappointed it wasn't mentioned in the board room. Claire is an obnoxious bully.

[David]

The staggeringly daft thinking on both sides last night was a delight. There was some wild gesticulation at the screen in this household as they put the 'mental' into environmental by deciding to save the planet by cutting down lots of trees to make cards. How daft was Jenny in promoting this for all she's worth then sitting in the pitch proudly telling the card retailers how she'd cut down on buying cards in order to be more green?! Was there really not some little red light flashing deep inside her head at that moment? I don't know why Kevin didn't take her into the boardroom. Mind you, this was the first really satisfying exit because he's been one of the prize idiots I wanted to see crashing and burning and he richly deserved it last night.

Still, Singles' Day (Single's Day? Singles Day? Sing'les D'ay?...) was only marginally less idiotic. In fact, if they hadn't been so monumentally stupid as to put it the day before Valentine's Day (Valentines' Day? Val'entines Day?...) it could have been better. I was open-mouthed at Michael after two retailers pointed this out saying they shouldn't change the date because it would undermine everything they'd discussed. What a numpty! If you don't listen to what your market is telling you what sort of a businessman are you? The ludicrous oikery of his frenzy at winning was great - perfected as ever by Margaret's expression.

I'd thought Michael wasn't too bad up until now, but the candidate who just plummeted in my estimation was Lee. His savaging of Sara when they got back was painful to watch and presumably was fuelled by his disappointment at Kev going, in which case his judgement is pants.

No, against my initial impressions in every possible regard I'm now rooting for Raef, who was thoroughly decent and prepared to stand up to the other guys defending Sara.

Still, much as she didn't deserve it Sara didn't have much backbone in standing up for herself so I suspect there's not enough grit to deal with that world.

[Seraphina]

Still, much as she didn't deserve it Sara didn't have much backbone in standing up for herself so I suspect there's not enough grit to deal with that world.

I thought the ending of last night's episode was sickening - I had quite liked Lee up until then but he was so nasty to Sara - I really felt for her. I know she didn't stand up for herself but do you really think it'd have done any good? It would probably just have fuelled the argument and led to more scapegoating and name calling.

The debate over the apostrophe was idiotic - if they weren't sure why not look at what they do for mothers day, fathers day, valentines day, st georges day....! A simple internet search could have cleared it up in a fraction of the time! (note I have not put any apostrophe as I'm far too confused myself now to commit a mistake to print! ;) ) Although it was funny that they were debating if it should go before or after the 'S' when surely the debate should be if it's after the s or there at all. :rolleyes:

It was a hard task though - I can't think of any occasions I could invent and pitch to a card company.

Raef has totally gone up in my estimation too, particularly after his behaviour last night, I now think he is quite good eevn though he still brings the phrase 'pompous ninny' to mind.

Lucinda is my favourite, although I'm not sure if she fits suralun's requirements. She seems to stick up for herself but know when to shut up.

[David]

I know she didn't stand up for herself but do you really think it'd have done any good?
No, I'm sure you're right, but it seemed indicative of a meeker personality that doesn't seem well suited to a fairly tough business world. Even though Lucinda is a breath of fresh air when it comes to a more user-friendly management style she can still dish it out when she needs to (to a point, at least!).

The debate over the apostrophe was idiotic
Wasn't it just?! The best part, though, was Michael phoning up the editor of The Telegraph! :rolleyes:

It was a hard task though - I can't think of any occasions I could invent and pitch to a card company.
Yes, that's true enough. Let's face it, the greetings card industry has covered pretty much every base possible - it's their job to! I wouldn't have found it easy to devise a new one either.

[lipstick_librarian]

Last night's was the first I've managed to catch of this series, so I didn't really know any of the characters but boy, was it hilarious! The lack of self-awareness and sheer immaturity is totally cringeworthy, but add that to the fact that Kevin looks just like Daffydd from Little Britain, and you end up with a damp sofa. The red-haired "eco-woman" was beyond belief and I have to admit to swearing rather profusely at her so-called 'expert green' status. Stupid cow! Poor Kevin and his 2 statistics about waste which he just kept repeating over and over. I found it highly entertaining in a blood-pressure-raising way, but I do think that the whole thing has turned into a bit of a Big Brother thing. The only reason the majority of them are there is because they make good telly. I suppose it would be very boring if they were all good leaders, motivators, team-players and knew how to sell.
Ooh, and don't get me started on the apostrophe business... Hmm, shall I check in Correct English Usage, or give the Editor of the Telegraph a call? Classic :D

[Tess]

The funniest part for me was the comment Kevin made during the pitch:

"If you don't back us then it is as bad as America saying they don't care about pollution".

The TV had to be paused in our house because my OH couldn't stop laughing! This was closely followed by Michael's (Michaels, Michaels') emergency call to The Telegraph. :rolleyes:



I'd thought Michael wasn't too bad up until now, but the candidate who just plummeted in my estimation was Lee. His savaging of Sara when they got back was painful to watch and presumably was fuelled by his disappointment at Kev going, in which case his judgement is pants.
Completely agree, I really liked Lee and was shocked at his reaction. I understand that the boys may have bonded (and I too was sad that Kevin was fired, but only because I found him such an entertaining numpty!) but Sara did not deserve that outburst.


No, against my initial impressions in every possible regard I'm now rooting for Raef, who was thoroughly decent and prepared to stand up to the other guys defending Sara.


Agree again. I really disliked him but he has grown on me each week, and he was a true gentleman to Sara.

[brakeonthroo]

I love the move, but I wish Trump wasn't in it

[David]

I love the move, but I wish Trump wasn't in it
Well, this is the series for you, then! In fact this is discussing the British version of The Apprentice, so it's a Trump-free zone!

That said, a friend of mine watches the American version and thinks it's much better than the British one and that Trump is more impressive than his equivalent British version, Sir Alan Sugar.

Anyway, welcome to BGO, brakeonthroo - why not drop by the Please Introduce Yourself (http://www.bookgrouponline.com/forum/showthread.html?t=727&page=1&pp=15) thread and tell us a little about yourself and your reading tastes?

[Ruth]

I have been watching this series with great interest, but have to say that there's not many contestants that I really like.

I didn't like Raef at the beginning, but he has gone up massively in my estimation - for sticking up for Sara last week, for knowing when to speak up and when to shut up, and for always behaving in a dignified fashion.

I also like Lucinda. She managed her team very well during the ice cream task, despite the fact that half the team clearly didn't think she was up to the job.

Kevin shot himself in the foot last week, by not taking Jenny into the boardroom - that has to be one of the most monumentally stupid things anyne has done so far in this series - apart from the idea of saving the environment by producing more paper :rolleyes:

I thought it was hard to watch the people back at the house picking on Sara. Lee wasn't even on her team, so how could he know what she did or didn't do? It was obvious that Alex and Jenny C had been sticking the knife in behind her back. I was glad that Raef stuck up for her, although I would have loved to have seen Sara give them all what for.

[Calliope]

That said, a friend of mine watches the American version and thinks it's much better than the British one and that Trump is more impressive than his equivalent British version, Sir Alan Sugar.
I've seen a couple of series (need plural help here -- serieses?? -- anyway...) of the US version and of the UK and I like the UK version better. It does come down to prefering Sir Alan to The Donald. With Sralan, you get the feeling that he (as much as his receptionist) is acting the part, in the fake boardroom and everything - having fun, in other words. Whereas Trump - and this is especially remarkable for someone with such amusing hair - takes himself far too seriously. It's just an ego trip for him - I'm sure Sralan's ego is in a fairly healthy state too, but there is more to him than that.

Sralan having made his own money rather than being the frontsman of potentially dubious investors (did I say that? :speechles ) makes for a more interesting personality too.

[megustaleer]

An unscheduled early evening nap caused me to miss the first 20 mins or so of last night's episode - and then the 'phone rang twice :mad:

I saw the interview in the boardroom, 'though, and Nick's praise of Sara and Lucinda makes me want to catch up on the bits I missed - and to see again Siralan's reaction to the bribing incident, and the Kosher chicken fiasco!

I'm off to iPlayer forthwith!

[megustaleer]

It was obvious as soon as the contestants were allotted to their teams which ones would work together best, so that was no surprise.
Although it did look as though they might lose on sales until the last hour or so of the exhibition, when the brides started to return and buy the posh frocks they had fallen for earlier in the day.
I enjoyed seeing things go right, for a change.

Siralan was spoiled for choice in the sacking stakes today :D

[Calliope]

I found myself feeling quite sorry for some of the candidates last night. Lucinda dealing with the two children, mostly (though I did giggle at Lee or was it Alex saying, 'I've never seen this side of her before' when they didn't want to listen to her). And Lee doing his incompetent pitch.

Raef was utterly true to type (Katy got similarly arty last series and forgot she was meant to be selling something, in her case, paintings). It's about tussues, Raef!! But he's so much like one of those people who you really don't like at first, but afterwards think, maybe he's not so bad. I was surprised Sralan kept Michael on again.

[megustaleer]

The Atishu! box was hideous, the TV advert was amateurish, and Lee's presentation was so excruciatingly embarrassing I couldn't watch it!
But I'd recognise the product from across the supermarket aisle - and that was the object of the exercise!
Lucinda did a lot of carping this week, and might have got the push if their advert hadn't won.

It was nasty seeing 'good friends' Michael & Raef shifting the blame onto each other in the boardroom.

Now we know where Michael got the idea that he was a good Jewish boy from when he filled in his application form.:p

[Jeremy DEagle]

I used to love The Apprentice but I can't watch this series. No one on there seems capable, they all seem mnasty, vindictive, spoilt little two faced *****. Its more like big brother these days- trying to keep the characters in as opposed to people actually capable of doing the job.

[megustaleer]

So, Michael ran out of lives at last!

I thought Helene was going to get the boot until she managed to give Siralan a reasonably spirited defence.
I think her contribution to he task - pulling in the passers-by and letting the better sales person 'close the deal' - was perfectly valid, and I've seen her do that in previous tasks and not get any credit for it. Surely Siralan's business doesn't consist entirely of crack sales staff? (Can't do, look who won last time - 'though I've seen any sign of that golf course around here yet :rolleyes: )
Not that I like Helene, or want her to win.
Not that any of the participants in any of the shows has been exactly likeable!

I was disappointed with Lucinda again this week, she seems to be quite capable in situations where she feels comfortable and has some control of whatever she has to do, but falls apart if she feels at all unable to cope. The weepiness and desperate need to blame someone elsewould have got her the boot had she been on the losing team these past two weeks. I wonder how she will stand up to the interviewers?
I thought Lee was bit harsh with her this week, but he really had to get that car hired out to save the task, and his own skin.

I still don't know what to make of Alex.

[Calliope]

I was surprised that Michael lasted this long, and he really did have to go. I thought Sralan was going to ask Helene to be team leader again - I didn't realise they were already up to the interview stage. She really doesn't seem to have anything to recommend her.

As with last week, Lucinda is simply too whingy (was she actually crying because she had to work on her own???) and Alex and Lee are so interchangable that I keep wishing they were on different teams so I can tell them apart.

Clare versus either Tweedledum or Tweedledee is my pick for the final.

[Seraphina]

As with last week, Lucinda is simply too whingy (was she actually crying because she had to work on her own???)

I think she was crying more because she had voiced her concerns over her selling ability (or lack of) and had been completely ignored, sent off on her own, knowing full well that if their team lost Lee would probably turn on her and say that if she wasn't happy with being on her own she "should have said", as has happened quite a few times in this series! I like her and think she's very capable, she just needs to let go of her victim status and 'can't do' attitude. Which is hard when she's being bullied. :mad:

I am so happy that Michael has left, he was a total waste of space and too dim for words. Him chasing the man up the street for a sale had me cringing.

Claire has actually grown on me, I really disliked her the first couple of weeks, but she seems to have taken all SA's advice on board and actually become a better team player and a nicer person. I'd probably still want to thump her if I was on a team with her and had a difference of opinion, but that's probably true of all of them!

Lee is my new nemesis, I really dislike the guy despite rooting for him in the first few weeks. His brutish treatment of Sara shocked me, and he seems to have turned on Lucinda now too. He may be good at sales and give the impression of being a happy go lucky, 'laddish' kinda guy, but he has shown a cruel streak and a temper that will go against him in any sort of team activity.

Alex - blah. Blah. Blah.

[megustaleer]

knowing full well that if their team lost Lee would probably turn on her .The problem being that to ensure that their team didn't lose they had to get a taker for the Zonda, and he didn't dare (or want) to entrust that job to Alex on his own. He could have tried to send Alex off with Lucinda, but (apart from knowing that Alex would object) it made more sense to concentrate his sales team on shifting the higher value product. That strategy had paid dividends at the wedding fair.

He should have explained that to Lucinda in a gentler manner, although she would still have seen it as setting her up as the boardroom target.

Of course, the way to get out of that would have been to grasp the nettle, face her demons, and work at 'selling' the car. Starting with finding out a bit about it - such as what @*&$% car she was flogging. (Even I, to whom a car is just a box on four wheels, would have known which of those two I'd been left with)

The raffle tickets would have been a good idea - for the cheaper car. They were unlikely to sell enough to cover the cost of the minimum hire on the Zonda, but even Lucinda could have sold a couple of hours worth for the Aston Martin.

[David]

So, anyone care to throw their thoughts into the ring about who will get through to the final?

I'll put my money on Alex and Claire, though after last year's result it's obvious that my thinking is not remotely in tune with Sir Al's.

Here's my order from first to be fired:

Helene: Useless. Only circumstance has seen her through this far and if he hadn't already used his two-firings built into the schedule he'd have ditched her last week.

Lucinda: I have a lot of time for her and warmed to her positive style in management, but she'd be a tasty minnow in a pool of sharks. Simply not cut out for the sort of business world Sir Al moves in and gets upset far too easily. Also, even though she's often justified in feeling put out and hard done by, it leads her into a very negative cycle of poor me.

Lee: Good at sales but without the people-smarts that I suspect Sir Al will want. A rough diamond but maybe too old for Al to be as forgiving as he consistently was of "Call-Me-Mordecai" Sophocles. I suspect he will be torn limb from limb by the interviewers and found to be out of his depth.

Alex: I don't like him but he's managed to perform reasonably well in most tasks and crucially has the savvy to be convincing when he needs it. Too pouty by half but I think he'll scrape through.

Claire: Had a deeply unfortunate start when some deeply unfortunate character traits cut through the screen like an oxy-acetyline torch. However, she learns and has adapted her act impressively. Yes, maybe it's a show but it's a damn smart one and she has come across as professional, capable, organised, analytical and efficient. She gets the job done and has sound ideas. A couple of times now she's actually received almost glowing looks from Sir Al, who's doubtless also taken by the notion that he's moulded her successfully.

All of that makes her my favourite. The producers' inferior Badger clone may actually end up getting further than the Badger herself, which only goes to show that the decision of that year was pants too...

[megustaleer]

The interviews often reveal surprising back-story on the candidates, which may completely alter our current opinions.
Anyone have any ideas what Siralan's latest project is? That may have some bearing on who he picks to do the final task - maybe if we had known he was planning on developing a hotel/golfcourse round here we might have been less surprised at last year's choice.

[David]

Anyone have any ideas what Siralan's latest project is? That may have some bearing on who he picks to do the final task - maybe if we had known he was planning on developing a hotel/golfcourse round here we might have been less surprised at last year's choice.
You're absolutely right and that's what annoyed me last year - you sensed that the goalposts had not merely been moved at the very end: they were suddenly somewhere outside the stadium.

He talked last time about starting to think where these people could fit in his organisation, so in a sense he's almost tailoring the job to the candidate. With that in mind it could, of course, be anyone.



...Except Helene. Surely except Helene.

[Calliope]

It was interesting to learn that Lucinda is the highest earner of the group. It would be nice to see if some of the loud, unpleasant women learned something from that - particularly the loud, unpleasant, ethically dubious Jenny.

But I'd be very surprised if anyone except Claire wins, and from last night's show, I think she'll be up against either Alex or Lee - most likely Alex. Possibly Lucinda. Surely not Helene.

[David]

from last night's show...
I'm regretting not watching that now! I'd assumed it was just going to be a re-cap of bits we'd seen so far. Bu@@er!

[megustaleer]

Surely not Helene.She wouldn't be my choice, either, from what we have seen, but I felt that Siralan wasn't totally dismissing her out of hand.

Claire appears to be the one with the best chance, but will the interviewers reveal some hidden secret, or a major flaw in her CV?

I'd like Lucinda to make it to the final, but I think she blew her chance in the last two tasks.

[nospacesallowed]

I thought Raef was going to win it! Although he deserved to go, that was a BAD mistake.

I want Lucinda to win, though I don't think she will.

[Calliope]

I want Lucinda to win, though I don't think she will.
I'd quite like Lucinda to win, too. It's unfortunate that she does tend to whinge and see herself as a victim (though, again, in some of the episodes, she was bullied and victimised) but I really think she's the first true ideas person we've seen on the show. She thinks for herself, and - unexpectedly - she seems to know how to manage people.

(Incidentally, I really like what she wears. There was a black and white dress from French Connections A/W 07 range that didn't really work on television, but most of her stuff is bright and eye-catching and interesting. I also had a beret stage. Fortunately, it was a very long time ago and little photographic evidence remains.)

[MisterHobgoblin]

I also had a beret stage. Fortunately, it was a very long time ago and little photographic evidence remains.
Does 'little' mean 'some'?

[Calliope]

Does 'little' mean 'some'? They aren't digitalised. :p

[MisterHobgoblin]

Poor Lucinda

[MisterHobgoblin]

((((((((Lucinda))))))))

[megustaleer]

They aren't digitalised. :p
Got a scanner?


..................................
I had read that Siralan was picking four contestants for the final. I thought it was the paper's mistake.

[Calliope]

Got a scanner?


..................................
I had read that Siralan was picking four contestants for the final. I thought it was the paper's mistake.
I have a scanner, but my father has the photos. I told you it was a long time ago ;) Actually, in the photo I can think of I'm standing next to my tiny grandmother with my head leaning to one side as though the beret was weighing it down. It was red and I was wearing it with a blue dress and one of those wide black belts we wore the last time they were fashionable - must have been 1987/1988. Looooong time ago.

I felt bad for Lucinda but I also don't think she would have been happy working for Sralan. We beret wearers like to paddle our own canoes. As long as no one nearby splashes our pretty dresses, of course.

[David]

I hadn't known there were going to be four in the final and was starting to wonder what was going on as ten o'clock neared and heads hadn't been rolling as if tumbrills were going out of fashion.

Still, whilst I didn't think Lucinda would be going through I'm not surprised she was the one chosen rather than Helene (galling as that might have been). She didn't come across so well in the interviews and sitting down to say she wasn't sure the job was for her was as good as giving Sir Al an Eric Morecambe slap round the chops and plonking a pink beret on his head.

Still, Alex was a right old how's-your-father for bringing it to the table. Not that I'm surprised, mind. I thought he was poor in what we saw of the interviews and if it hadn't been for Lee's uni-porkie-pie I'd have moved my money to him getting through to the now non-existent final two.

It was depressing to see these gurus declare that Helene was a good candidate and oh, what a rough time she had as a child. Just goes to show what a useless process interviewing can be, really.

Claire still favourite and that's doubtless why Sir Al gave her the final words that sounded like a prelude to firing - giving her a warning to reinforce the slipping improvement in gobulousness.

Probably, though, the least enjoyable of all the Apprentice interview programmes.

[Jeremy DEagle]

As I've said recently I've stopped watching it. It just seems to have been dumbed down to me. None of the candidates seems much cop compared to previous years and they just seem to be a bunch on nasty, arrogant b*stards.

[MisterHobgoblin]

OK - my run through

Lucinda - I heart Lucinda - she was bright, thoughtful, competent, self-aware. I can see that she might have been a risk, but if she has been successful in the tasks and successful in her present work then she deserved a chance.

Lee - In my book, lying on a CV is a sacking offence - and one for which prosecution should be considered. Apparently many people do lie on CVs. This renders the whole CV process pretty worthless and disadvantages people who play by the rules. The only way to salvage the situation is to make the penalty high. The wink was also unforgivable, and he seems not to understand professional dress or professional behaviour.

Clare - Quite a lively character with an endearing smile and line of backchat. The question, though, is whether she is only good at sales (and not even the best at that) or is there more to her. When she has led tasks, she hasn't shone.

Alex - Sneaky, sullen, dull, aggressive. I wouldn't hire him, especially not after grassing up Lucinda last night. Who wants a snitch working for them?

Helene - Very, very boring and not terribly impressive. But at least she's not Lee or Alex. She has been dreadful as a project manager and it's difficult to think where she has done well. Even she seemed to be admitting that she hasn't shone.

Oh dear, where do we go from here? Well, if I had money to invest (whish I don't) I think I'd avoid Amstrad...

[David]

Oh dear, where do we go from here?
Well quite. Although I think Claire should definitely win it she's hardly top-drawer material. More an over-stuffed dirty underwear drawer, really (given her lip-sucking fantasies...).

Perhaps when the others return next week to 'help' with the final task Sir Al will look at Raef and realise his terrible blunder, fire these four and start redecorating the new apprentice's office with hand-printed Italian wallpaper...

[MisterHobgoblin]

I'm hoping Nicholas deLacy Brown might be given another chance. I think he's just been misunderstood.

[megustaleer]

Clare - Quite a lively character with an endearing smileMore of a smirk if you ask me.

I think Siralan has paired up the contestants cannily for the final task. The eventual choice will probably be between Claire and Lee, which is what most people were expecting anyway.

The alternative, should those two lose, would be interesting...

I like the idea of having them work in pairs for the final task. They will have to co-operate and work well together if they are to have any chance of winning the task - but each one must be able to demonstrate that little extra something put him/herself above the other 'partner' and stand out as the right choice for the apprentice.

Could be some interesting dynamics - I hope so, as the interview show lacked spark.

[David]

Well well! I think as the final show moved along I felt my certainty that Claire would win it soften and when Lee was finally revealed as the winner something about it felt right - especially as Sir Al explained his thinking in the You're Hired show.

Mind you, it still beggars belief that Helene got that far, which was most of her problem in the final task: she couldn't quite believe it either and was paralysed with insecurity. Still, the most entertaining bit came in the You're Fired show when Lucinda wouldn't let the bad blood drop - quite starkly.

Anyway, as Sir Al said, there are no worries that Claire will find a successful path. Mind you, I thought the limp little interchange about Simon's year in the job spoke volumes - I didn't get the impression that's been a rip-roaring success.

[megustaleer]

What was the matter with Helene? She was totally useless!
Her inability to come up with a name for their fragrance left Alex floundering for any basis on which to choose the packaging, and his relief at the designer's suggestion blinded him to the cost implications - which was bound to be a big no-no for Siralan.

Not that it would have made a ha'pporth of difference, as the final task is set up in such a way that Siralan can always hire his preferred contestant.

I was a little disappointed, nay - shocked - that the first 'helper' chosen from the sacked contestants was Jenny Celerier.
The winning team contained someone prepared to offer a bribe to damage a rival's chances, and the winner was someone who lied on his CV. British business practice today, uh? :(

I didn't watch any follow-up programmes, but David's comments are sending me off to look at them on iPlayer :rolleyes:

[Calliope]

Actually, I think Helene was entirely over-confident of her right to be there, especially shown in the car on the way out when she was talking about it being the design of the bottle that lost them the task, and saying 'I didn't have anything to do with the bottle'. And then I wondered if people at the BBC were seeing a different person from us when one of the Your Fired panelists said Helene was 'very beautiful'. What??? To me she seems just about the definition of hangdog
http://cdn-www.dailypuppy.com/media/dogs/anonymous/bentley_basset_hound_01.jpg_w450.jpg

[megustaleer]

one of the Your Fired panelists said Helene was 'very beautiful'. What??? To me she seems just about the definition of hangdog
She looked like a completely different person on Your Fired, animated and with a lovely smile. We didn't see much of that during the tasks!

[MisterHobgoblin]

I'd forgotten about the lying on the CV. Having persuaded myself last night that Lee did deserve to win, I've totally revised my thinking. Lying on a CV is a hanging offence and has to be if the CV and application process is ever to be fair or worthwhile.

[Jeremy DEagle]

I'd forgotten about the lying on the CV. Having persuaded myself last night that Lee did deserve to win, I've totally revised my thinking. Lying on a CV is a hanging offence and has to be if the CV and application process is ever to be fair or worthwhile.

But isn't it true that most/a lot of people lie on their CV? Its up to the interviewer to get to the bottom of that and find out the detail. A CV is really only a starting point for an interview.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you though, more playing devil's advocate. Its not the brightest thing to lie on a CV that will be talked about to the whole country on TV though.

[Calliope]

But isn't it true that most/a lot of people lie on their CV? Its up to the interviewer to get to the bottom of that and find out the detail.
I've often thought this. The truth is just one version of a story, no more or less likely to have happened than anything else. Why does a statement being true make it any more worthy of being stated than something else that might be far more interesting? The worst thing a CV could possibly be is dull. That's why I make sure to mention my studies in nuclear medicine and astrophysics on mine, in the degrees I pursued at the University of Bologna before I was nominated for a Nobel Prize in physics.

[MisterHobgoblin]

I know people use a CV to highlight their strong points and, at times, gloss over their weaker points. But the CV or application form must not contain any factual errors. If you allow people to get away with lying on a CV, it disadvantages the honest people who have stuck to the truth, it makes the CV a very unreliable guide of ability, experience or even a starting point for an interview. People who lie on CVs have attempted to obtain a job (ahead of other people) by deception. That's a criminal offence and I would advocate prosecuting for it. I know many people do lie on CVs, and partly that's because there is a perception that you won't be caught, and if you are caught you'll get away with it.

[Calliope]

Battle of the TV shows.

It seems the Dragons Den folk agree with the I'm-amazed-it's-contentious idea that CV's should be truthful

Apprentice winner Lee McQueen criticised by Dragon's Den team

Leading businessmen lined up to criticise The Apprentice after contestant Lee McQueen won the show despite lying on his CV.

Mr McQueen, 30, was hired by Sir Alan Sugar for a £100,000 job after controversially winning the BBC1 series this week.

Duncan Bannatyne, entrepreneur and star of BBC2's Dragons' Den, said: "I wouldn't employ anyone who had lied.

"I'm very angry about the message Sir Alan has sent out by hiring Lee as his Apprentice. In business honesty is key to success."

Article continuesadvertisement
And fellow Dragons' Den star Theo Paphitis said: "I would never employ anyone who lies on their CV.

"If they can lie about that how can you be sure that they won't lie about other things? It would be difficult to fully trust them again."

Another of the dragons, Peter Jones, said: "If someone can lie to that extent how are they going to be managed when given a job? I'd have fired Lee there and then."

Simon Woodroffe, founder of the Yo! Sushi restaurant chain said: "If someone lies on their CV you'd wonder what else they would lie about."

But Mr McQueen received backing from nightclub owner Peter Stringfellow.

He said: "I would employ someone who had lied on their CV. To me it's just a document which is there to guide you.

"I am sure most people have exaggerated on their CVs."

- The Telegraph
I really am amazed that this is even an issue. If people aren't going to tell the truth then what is the point of CV's? I can see that, yes, they are intended to 'advertise' the applicant as a potential employee, but ads are required not to be actively untruthful. Lee didn't gloss over his weaker points, he actually lied.

I have been having a discussion with my (impressionable) teenage son about this. I wonder how many parents whose children are just a couple of years away from writing their first CVs will have taken the time to explain that lying on them is a serious matter. It was a really, really bad influence to let this pass so lightly.

It actually raises quite serious doubts in my mind about Alan Sugar's own integrity.

[Hazel]

I am sure the DD men have another agenda for criticizing The Apprentice. What did Lee lie about? I don't watch the show...

[kelby_lake]

Lee said he did a two year degree when he'd left after 4 months. Yes, lying on a
CV is bad but Lee clearly did have a problem with writing and reading. He's not very eloquent and so tries to do as hard as he can in the physical tasks. It's why he told off Sara as well, because she was very eloquent.

Helene was cruel. She just didn't bother in the final because she knew she wouldn't win and she didn't want Alex to.

[Calliope]

Helene was cruel. She just didn't bother in the final because she knew she wouldn't win and she didn't want Alex to. Gosh, do you think she was actually cruel? I thought she was merely egotistical and incompetent.

[Hazel]

Lee said he did a two year degree when he'd left after 4 months.
Oooh, that's a doozy. Thanks kelby_lake.

[David]

I agree with Hazel that it's no surprise the Dragons have been on the attack - their show's not been hitting the heights it once did so they'll be keen to put the boot into their main rival.

Yes, clearly the lying on Lee's part was very poor and I agree that in normal circumstances if you'd been found out in a bit of CV fabrication in the jobs process then you should be out on your ear. That said, though, this is hardly the normal jobs process and there's part of me that feels he could be given some leeway (ahem!) in thinking that he had some talent and in order to get past the researchers sifting applications for Sir Al he needed to cover an obvious gap in his past. Since candidates are essentially being judged on how they actually perform over many weeks there's an argument that their educational background is largely irrelevant by the end of it: they'll have proven themselves one way or another. However, by that stage, of course, he'd prepared a hole for himself and he should have nad the nous to own up straight away.

I think a far greater offence was not to take care over his spelling, which was shockingly horrendous. If you can't be bothered to make the effort to get that right - even by getting a mate to check it - then that sends out a poor message.

If there had been a better range of candidates then perhaps the lying could have weighed more, but again, this isn't a normal employment process. In the real world if your best candidate is found to have lied at the last minute you can always re-advertise, but not here: Sir Al's committed to take on one candidate from that collection for a year at £100,000. Now if you were him and you genuinely thought Lee was the best in terms of the three-month selection process would you really let such a lie - clearly generated from his insecurity about his educational background - stop you from appointing him? I understand the principle but ultimately it would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. The whole point of the show is that it's about business and that's a business decision.

Still, much as this situation is unique and needs to be viewed as such I sympathise with the fact it seems to send out the wrong message about what's acceptable and that's unfortunate to say the least.

[nospacesallowed]

Yes Lee my son!

I knew he'd win it! What a legend!

He SO deserved it. He was so inspirational throughout the whole process. Everyone loved him! Ha! Love it.

[Cootisms]

Anyone else think Lee was dyslexic? Would explain the bad spelling & Lee's comment on his lack of a degree because he never performed well in exams. IIRC, Kerren Brady brought it up in the interview process.
I heard about the lie before I wxatched the eps & didn't think it was as horrendous as everyone was making out. He never claimed to have finished the course, which makes it a lot less bad than I originally thought. If he'd claimed to have completed a degree course, then I think he should have left.
I think Michelle Dewbury (Series 2) lied on her CV too and she also got the job.
Hated Helene & couldn't disagree more with the person who said she looked beautiful! To me she always looked like a depressed bulldog, as she's quite jowly and just looked sullen most of the time. Alex irritated me too, mainly for dropping Lucinda in it during the post-interview session with SrAlan, which was just shitty behaviour.
Overall, Lee seemed to be the least bitchy/back-stabbing one and I would have loved to see him & Lucinda paired up for the final task, though the choice of team-mates was dire & none of them liked Lucinda, so they'd probably have sabotaged things for her.
I can see Lucinda going on to do great things-I thought she was like a good and decent version of Katie Hopkins, one of last year's contenders.

[MisterHobgoblin]

((((((Katiekins))))))

[David]

((((((Katiekins))))))
Good to see the fire's still burning! I know you'd hire her, Mr HG!

(Well, y'know, in a strictly Alan Sugar sort of way...)

I watched The Weakest Link Apprenctice special and was quite staggered by the depth of animosity that still raged between Kristina and Katie. Credit to Katie in that she did try to be noble but Kristina was foul. Made Anne Robinson look like a wide-eyed kitten.

[MisterHobgoblin]

Kristina always was foul. I think it was the way that the pubic took such a dislike to Katie that they were unwilling to see any fault in Kristina. My enemy's enemy must be my friend.

Kristina was really just a rather aggressive, duplicitous and two-dimensional snake-oil salesman.

[MisterHobgoblin]

I think Michelle Dewbury (Series 2) lied on her CV too and she also got the job.
A good example of why it isn't sensible to hire people who lie on their CVs.